Posted on 30 May 2011. In 256news Tags: inflation, Ministry of Finance, MPs’ motor vehicle acquisition, Speaker Rebecca Kadaga
After the MPs demanded a pay raise to protect themselves from the biting inflation, it has also emerged that authorities in Parliament are quietly negotiating with officials in government to increase MPs’ motor vehicle acquisition fund from Shs60 million to Shs192 million.
Ms Justine Lumumba, the new Housing Minister and a former Parliamentary Commissioner, told reporters on Friday that the commission sanctioned a Shs190 million car grant for each MP. There are 375 MPs in the Ninth Parliament. This means taxpayers will have to fork out more than Shs71.2 billion to buy new vehicles for MPs. However, Ms Lumumba said the cost and the modalities will be subject to discussion with the Ministry of Finance.
“We are still in negotiation with Ministry of Finance… everything has gone up, prices have doubled and others even tripled. To get sound vehicles we need this money to facilitate members,” she said. “After our negotiations, a decision will be made whether to buy new cars for MPs or give them money to top-up.”
It has also emerged that Speaker Rebecca Kadaga and her deputy Jacob Oulanyah have already acquired brand new vehicles at Shs419 million each—replacing the old fleet. The vehicles were bought from Spear Motors. “The vehicles for the Speaker and Deputy were old and we needed to replace them,” Parliament’s Public Relations Officer Helen Kawesa said on Friday. “They were bought 10 years ago, they had mechanical problems and a decision was made to have these vehicles replaced.” She added: “We followed all the procurement rules and the process was transparent. This purchase started six months ago.”
Ms Kawesa said the old vehicles will be boarded off at an appropriate time. On the new vehicles for MPs, Ms Kawesa said: “Being a new Parliament, we normally give members money to acquire vehicles. In 2006 members bought vehicles at Shs60 million but because of inflation, the cost has since gone up. Five years is a long time. There is nothing sinister about the vehicles, we are going to follow the law and everything will be transparent.”
The car deal comes after Daily Monitor reported on Friday that a week after they were sworn-in, MPs demanded that government extends a Shs50 million advance to each of them among other proposals for an upward review in pay and a removal of taxes on cars which they will buy under the already generous motor vehicle loan scheme. MPs have also proposed their pay be increased from Shs15 million to Shs19 million.
On Thursday, the lawmakers chased away journalists and stopped coverage of a plenary debate where they reportedly agreed to push for a pay raise in a move, according to sources, which is intended to shield them from rising cost of living biting other Ugandans.
Ms Kawesa later cited sections of parliamentary rules that allow ejecting journalists if their presence during discussion will threaten national security. But when asked if indeed MPs’ pay is a matter of national security, Ms Kawesa replied: “MPs requested a closed session because there were issues they wanted to discuss. There was no mischief. It’s only that the new MPs wanted privacy. They were not comfortable with the presence of the press.”
Monday, May 30, 2011
There was no election in 1980 - Museveni
FLASHBACK
There was no election in 1980 - Museveni in The Monitor, Friday March 15-18, 1996
As peace talks went on between GEN Tito Okello Lutwa’s military Council/UNLA and Yoweri Museveni’s NRM/A in Nairobi 1985, following Milton Obote’s overthrow on July 27, JOHN GACHIE - Kenya Times Foreign correspondent took time off to interview Museveni. We return to that moment – about two months before NRA stormed kampala and handed power over to Museveni:
Kenya times: when you say you are not ambitious then what are you?
Museveni: we’ve got aims, we have aims. One of our aims is dignity; dignity for the African people I told you that I went to Mozambique in 1968. You cannot say that I wanted to be the president of Mozambique. But our Aim has always been dignity for the African people and dignity can mean a number of things.
One is independence: alright political independence that is;
Two, a decent level of living; economically the Africans must have all these things – decent life; they must have meals, they must have proteins, they must have carbohydrates, they must have good houses.
That’s what we mean by dignity of the African people. They must have a government that respects them. Like in Uganda you find the soldiers of the regime have been stripping women naked, raping them. That’s not dignity to the African people; that is indignity. So, that’s one of the things we are fighting for, the dignity of the African people. And as I have said, the dignity of the African people means a lot of things in economic terms, political terms, human rights, their democratic rights. That’s what we have been fighting for.
KENYA TIMES: Now since the formation of the NRM or since you went into the bush in 1981, we have never had your political or ideological stand. It has never been clear, some have called you a Marxist others a socialist, what are you?
Museveni: I am a nationalist. As I have said, if you listened to what I said about the African people, you will find that it is linked to national consciousness. So our main stand in ideological terms is nationalism, patriotism – love for our country – Uganda and Africa in general. That is our line. About Marxism, I know what Marxism is all about, what capitalism is all about, what the different philosophers said at different times. We are aware of what is being talked about but as far as Uganda is concerned and as far as Africa is concerned, we don’t think that what Uganda needs is Marxism. We think what Uganda needs is development even on Capitalistic basis if it benefits our people because a programmes is like a suit, you go and measure yourself and see what suit fits you. You are not going to go and put on Museveni’s suit and say that you are dressing nicely. You go and have yourself measured, then they will make the suit which is equal to your size, in the waist, in the legs, in the chest. It seems to me that Museveni never knew that capitalism can generate growth but no development and it looks clear to me that from the word go, Museveni has never had a clear ideology. His politics is not ideologically –oriented – he has had no ideological orientation.
KENYA TIMES: Well by then …
Museveni: The same with a political programme; in a country like Uganda, if you look at it, what is it? Mainly of peasants. They don’t have industries. These peasants are engaged in primitive form of Agriculture. Underdeveloped forms of Agriculture using a hand hoe. The population in Uganda is still small. I don’t agree with these people that Africa is overpopulated myself (and I agree with him: we have an increasing population but not overpopulated). I don’t subscribe to that view. Like in Uganda, the population is still small, it is only 15million people and Uganda is almost the size of Britain. UK is the same size as Uganda with a population of about 60m people.
In fact, Uganda is under populated. Therefore, the ideas of Marx as they were enunciated during the last century don’t fit in that kind of situation, because Marx was talking about as developed capitalist society with a big working class which didn’t own any property and who therefore had no interest in private property but wanted communal ownership of property because they had lost their property already.
In fact, Marx said, “you have nothing to lose but your chains”. If you remember he said something like that but our people are owners. Everybody owns a small plot of land, some property somewhere and some cows, so the Uganda society is a society of small owners. So you see you are talking of two different societies. For instance, capitalistic Europe in the last century or even today and backward Uganda. Because Uganda is a backward country, it has got a lot of resources but are not yet developed. Then you talk about two different things.
You can’t bring what Marx was talking in the last century because these are small owners. Small owners are interested in improving what they own. They want their small properties to expand so they have an interest in ownership and in improving the quality of that ownership. (sadly, when he came, he divested the citizens of all that belonged to the state). That’s Uganda now. On the other hand, the European countries like Germany when Marx was writing about them, like Britain, they had millions of working people who had no property at all and who couldn’t hope to have property, you see. So, if you talk about communal ownership of wealth, there you can argue with him.
But here, we are talking about a different situation. My mother and my father have no interest in communizing wealth. They have got interest in improving their small property because they already have some property. When the situation comes when we have got a huge population of people who don’t have property, maybe the people will start arguing whether property should be communal or not (COULD THIS BE THE TIME WHEN PEOPLE WANT PROPERTY TO BE COMMUNAL? HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LANGUISHING WITHOUT ANY PROPERTY?) then the topic might be relevant but not now? – is it not surprising that you came when every Uganda had property and instead of developing industries to absorb the ever increasing population, now you see Ugandans without property, without jobs without anything. At least in the European countries you talked about, many people were workers although they were exploited by the capitalists? So are we capitalists? What are we? At least, I am sure we are neither socialists nor Marxists.
KENYA TIMES: Back to the question of capitalism or Marxism. You also know that capitalism as we know it today was started in the 19th century …. at least a polished and improved version.
Museveni: oh no. capitalism was started in the 15th century.
KENYA TIMES: So, it would be fair to say that you are not opposed to Marxism. It is only that it is not appropriate to the present situation?
Museveni: it’s inappropriate to our present situation.
KENYA TIMES: What is appropriate then, what kind of ideology or political system would fit the present situation?
Museveni: To answer the question of what is appropriate now, we should first answer the question of what are our problems, because you should answer questions. It’s easier. What is the problem of Africa today? The problem of Africa today is backwardness because when you are talking about capitalism or socialism, you are talking about developed societies. Both of them are developed you should have illusions about that.
They are advanced societies. Agriculture is advanced. Industries are advanced. Social services are advanced. But they are advanced in different ways. Tunaelelewana hapo Ndugu, tunaelewana? (Do we concur here, brother). And if you want to measure the level of development there are certain indicators you can use. For instance, we use the number of doctors per number of people. I mean how many persons per every available doctor? If you use that as criteria, if you go to UK maybe there are 520 persons per doctor. In Czechoslovakia maybe there are 580 persons or 540 and East Germany maybe 530 per every available doctor. You find that in these societies, there are very many doctors but if you go to Kenya, you find there may be 250,000 people per every available doctor, in Chad, the figure maybe 85,000 people per every available doctor. If you go to Tanzania which is supposed to be socialist and Kenya capitalist, you may find the figures almost the same or slightly higher but they are in the same category of developing countries while UK and Czechoslovakia are in the same category of advanced countries.
You can use income per capita, infant mortality rates or calories consumed per day per person to establish the level of development in any country. So, now if you use these tests, you will find that generally speaking, African countries are backward, whether they say, they are capitalists or socialists or whatever they say, they are backward. On the other hand West and East European countries are generally developed.
KENYA: Yes, but then..,.
Museveni: Then the debate, you wait, the debate is now about which is a more efficient form of a developing country. Some say, capitalism is better because it gives people incentives to work and so forth and so on (HOW ABOUT EXPLOITATION? HOW ABOUT A COMBINATION OF CAPITALISM AND UNEMPLOYMENT?). These are some of the arguments they advance. The socialists say NO. Socialist policies are more efficient because of centralized planning and so on and so forth. But what are they arguing about? It’s like people in this hotel arguing that this suite is better than the other one but it is the same hotel. While someone in Kawangware, (laughing) is arguing which slum is better than the other with his friend (UGANDANS ARE NOW ARGUING WHICH THIEF, WHICH MISMANAGER AND WHICH DICTATOR IS BETTER OF ALL THE DICTATORS WE HAVE HAD?). Yes you can have your own argument there. So I am telling you that the problem of Africa is backwardness, because if you understood political economy, there are things we call for instance, productive forces. Productive forces, mean science, technology and managerial capability, you know Si unisaidie! Bwana (help me).
You know what productive forces mean: science plus technology plus managerial capability of that society. Now you find that, we can talk about productive forces of African countries being backward while those of the developed countries are advanced.
So what Africa lacks is development.
KENYA: We are all agreed on that…
Museveni: the problem is backwardness and now to overcome this backwardness for me, and this is what we have proposed time and time again, not only NRM, which came just yeaterday but even before when we were in FRONASA and the UPM during the elections – we were promising a mixed economy which would be the best strategy to follow to overcome this backwardness by mixed economy.
We mean you could use capitalistic techniques and socialist techniques wherever applicable. For instance, the Kenya Commercial Bank, who owns it? Is it not government-owned? It’s a nationalised industry and nationalisation was first used by the socialists. It is a socialist technique and why did the Kenya government, for instance, use that technique? They were right because that was the only solution.
Otherwise, if they hadn’t set up the Commercial Bank of Kenya, the only other people who had the capital were foreigners. Now if they had gone with those foreigners controlling the loaning system of the financial houses in the country, they would have served the interests of the foreigners. So it was clever for the government of Kenya to try and own commercial financial institutions, because once you own them, then you might use them to give a loan to someone who might do something for the country (DID HE FORGET THAT AT A TIME UCB WAS SOLD), while if you don’t own them the foreign banks will not give you a loan if you want to establish a shoe-making company. If the shoe importing is done by foreign interests, they won’t allow it because of the control on the loaning policy.
On the other hand, like here in Kenya, the farms are owned by the private individuals. Now that is a capitalistic technique, because you are using private enterprise to run farms. So, for us we have always recommended that a mixed economy and approach, depending on the industry involved, may be the best way to overcome backwardness. If we attacked it cleverly you can be able within 15 -20 years, to overcome it.
KENYA TIMES: To probably leave the question of ideology …would you…
Museveni: No, we cannot leave it. We should only leave it when you absolutely sure of our position, because you should understand it. So we are saying therefore, the main problem is that of underdevelopment, we should get it out clearly.
KENYA TIMES: The main problem of the countries or Africa?
Museveni: Both, the main problem is the underdevelopment of the economy of the society because society is also underdeveloped and politics – because politics is also underdeveloped. Politics in Africa is very underdeveloped. That is why African governments are afraid of criticism and things like that – because they feel insecure.
Politically, we are underdeveloped. That’s why you find lack of democracy, because of insecurity. The regimes are insecure; they are afraid of people, afraid of different opinions and afraid of so many things at the same time. But if they were not afraid, then you can talk, like in England, you can go and talk and wear placards and nobody cares about you because you are not a threat to anybody.
KENYA TIMES: Would you allow that thing say in Uganda?
Museveni: W-e-l-l, … I think eh… the problem in Uganda and in other African countries as far as the political question is concerned, although there are many questions involved, political questions, economic questions and many other things, the position of Uganda and other Africa countries as far as the political question is concerned is lack of understanding the political problems on the part of the leaders as well as on those whom they are leading.
So that, you find that, they are sometimes arguing about the wrong things. I have told you about the question of parties in Uganda which are based partly on religious grounds. Some are Catholics, some are Protestants. Now this is not a correct demarcation. So, I am not sure whether to allow these people to continue fighting and arguing as Catholics and Protestants. Will that help the demarcation? So, it is not easy to say, allow the freedom of this or that. Me, I think the main problem would be to educate the population about their real interests because sometimes they are pushing other people’s interests – and then the bad elements use their ignorance to push their own interests – using the population and making the people forget about their real interests.
KENYA TIMES: Won’t you then be falling into the same trap that African leaders have fallen into time and time again, condescending; as it were leaders deciding, arrogating to themselves the right to decide who is a bad element or not. Won’t you be perpetuating a similar thing?
Museveni: Not for us. Not for us. Because for us we don’t arrogate ourselves if you say that there is a difference between Catholics and Protestants and that this difference is irreconcilable, we shall not agree with you. And it’s not arrogating ourselves the right to decide. We are not doing that because for us we ask ourselves: What is the difference between the Catholics and Protestants? They both need roads, clean water, social services and other amenities. If we tell them that these differences are artificial divisions and they tell us we have no right to tell them so, we shall tell them, well you are wrong and we are duty-bound to tell them they are wrong (LIKEWISE, THOSE WHO TELL M7 HE IS WRONG IN THE WAY HE COMPORTS HIMSELF AND RUNS GOVERNMENT ARE DUTY-BOUND TO TELL HIM SO).
KENYA TIMES: How do you go about telling them that they are wrong?
Museveni: Well, we educate them about their real interests, what’s good for all of us. This can be argued openly …. You can also not confuse weak leadership with democracy or confusion with democracy. You cannot tell me that such fellows fighting on the basis of religion or tribal grounds are encouraging democracy. I don’t think so. No, because the best way to test this out: why this woman or man is fighting with the other one and where they clash fundamentally. If you don’t know why they clash, then you are wrong.
KENYA TIMES: Back to Uganda, now, you contested the 1980 elections but never won a seat yourself?
Museveni: It was rigged, there was no election, there was no election. My constituency was stretching from the Tanzanian border up to Lake George. That is a distance of about 100 miles. You see for yourself on the map. You see they were demarcating the constituency in such a way that they would ensure that the people they didn’t want didn’t win the elections. That was problem number one. We call this in English gerrymandering the constituency, manipulating the constituency so that you exclude the people you don’t want to be elected.
We had told them that the constituency boundaries should follow administrative boundaries as much as possible because administrative boundaries exist.
You know in Uganda we have what we call counties and sub counties. Now, a constituency is supposed to have something like 100,000 people. Some had more like 160,000; others had less like 850,000 to 95,000 people. For us, our movement, the idea was that why tamper with these administrative boundaries? Why not have a constituency for Parliamentary elections? At the same time it is the county for administrative purposes and at the same time an economic unit. A development unit because you can use it for economic planning.
For them, they were not interested in this. They were interested in finding constituencies where they didn’t like the man and remove it. Secondly, they were actually removing votes, you know the votes were in four ballot boxes, so that, because there were four parties and if they shook the box of their man and found he didn’t have many votes they would then empty the other boxes.
For us we wanted one ballot box and one ballot paper with all the names of the candidates and the people would make their choice on one ballot paper and put it in one ballot box with all of us looking – but they wanted four boxes and four ballot papers. So, there was no election, there were no elections at all.
KENYA TIMES: How do you react to accusations that you are not Ugandan , that you come from Rwanda and that you should leave Ugandans to sort their political problems?
Museveni: Okay, suppose I was a Rwandese by origin, just for the sake of argument and I have lived in Uganda for many years. Why shouldn’t I take part in the politics of Uganda? …after somebody stayed in Uganda for more than seven years as an African from a neighbouring country, he can apply to be a citizen of Uganda. Even from that point of view – that so and so is not a Ugandan - he is a Rwandese, it is rubbish as far as I am concerned. Indians here. If Indians can be Kenyan, or Ugandan why shouldn’t an African from Kenya or Rwanda be a citizen of Uganda for that matter – if he has lived in Uganda for twenty or thirty years if he wants to stay there, why shouldn’t he have the same rights?
This is rubbish…brother, from these fellows who have failed to run Africa, they are always looking for excuses, scapegoats you know like Hitler, who when he failed to run Germany he started blaming the Jews and said the problem of Germany was Jews. …this is all rubbish.
But anyway, to come to the question, of whether I am a Ugandan or not I am definitely a Ugandan by birth.
Point number two, even if I had come from Rwanda, I would still be proud as I am entitled as I am today, to fight for justice in Uganda – because that’s where I would be living. (WAS HE REALLY FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE; THEN WHERE IS IT?). This is rubbish wajinga, wajinga kabisa , hawa watu shenzitu. (They are stupid, stupid, foolish, foolish).
These are African leaders who are politically bankrupt, they use what we call in philosophy obscurantism, to obscure issues using diversionary tactics. It’s like saying although, I am a thief, the one accusing me is a Munyankole. To me Africans are a wonderful people. I am not proud of these boundaries they were put there by colonialists, by Bismarck, hawa watu ni wajinga kabisa shenzi tu . Instead of taking advantage of the common links like the Bantu people near the lake, you see I can understand almost all these people without so much problem from Mt Elgon. These Samia people, Baluhya , right up to Rwanda and even these Nyerere people across the lake in Tanzania, why can’t these people take advantage of these common linguistic heritage like other countries?
Museveni’s politics is Pan Africanism for political and economic reasons. These people are just incredible, you see there a Banyankole saying that “the hairstyle is made according to the size and shape of the head”.
KENYA TIMES: The media impression is that you are the stumbling block to the Uganda peace agreement by resisting disarmament. What have you to say to these allegations?
Museveni: What is disarmament? It’s an insult to our people. They are talking about bringing foreign forces, Uganda is not a colony. The army is the core of the government, because it can protect and guarantee the government. How can a government by itself propose that it be disarmed? Me, I wouldn’t even whisper about it.
What we need is a small training force. Why do they have so much faith in foreign armies? Obote had British, Korean, Sierra Leonean , Australian, Tanzanian and Egyptian military trainers and even the North Koreans were actually fighting and sisi tunawapondaponda ( and we still crushed them regardless).
It is not necessary, not advisable to have foreign troops or do they want security from foreign soldiers, worried about their own safety? Why should a foreign power play a colonial role or a mercenary role in Uganda? We proposed a formation of a joint force made up about 4000 soldiers from NRA and UNLA and then some observers from some Commonwealth countries to see the integration and formation of a new army.
I cannot fail to get 15,000 soldiers to guard me and I don’t pay them like the present case in Kampala. All we give them is food rations. Nothing more because they believe in the cause of the fight.
KENYA TIMES: But where do you get the money from to afford to buy them food?
Museveni: We get money by capturing it from the regime. We confiscate it; not stealing and we issue receipts for it and we shall account for it to the people of Uganda at a later date, but not to the regime in Kampala.
KENYA TIMES: You are also accused of being a tribalist. That the Movement (NRM) – and especially the people attending the peace talks – are mainly Banyankole and only three Baganda who are alleged to be rejects by their own people?
You see, brother, these people are not serious. First, I am not a Ugandan. Then I am a tribalist, why all these contradictions? I have not cared to select the tribe. All I care is that someone is doing a job. You see brother, brother, in the NRA, we don’t follow tribes, because if we did, it would mean that in theatre, a Kikuyu is the doctor, a Kalenjin is a nurse and the Kamba is a theatre technician. It would be ridiculous.
If you bring tribalism tunakupondaponda (we crush you) until you are not seen and that is why we are defeating these bastards because we look for quality. We have Banyankole, Basoga, Bakiga, Banyoro and Baganda.
KENYA TIMES: What would make the two agree on peaceful solution to Ugandan problems?
Museveni: there are only three positive elements in Uganda. One, our Movement (NRM), the political parties (UPC and DP), if they can only agree to come together and the young soldiers and officers of the UNLA, who staged the coup which was derailed and handed over to their bosses who were never involved in it.
KENYA TIMES: What about Tito Okello and Basilio Okello? Are you saying that they were not involved in the coup against Obote?
Museveni: Basilio Okello and Tito Okello had nothing to do with the coup. In fact, Tito Okello almost fled to Sudan and the fellow who announced the coup was certainly Okello Koro – if you heard the first broadcast of the coup. In fact he defected to our side towards the end of September. He was either a Second Lt. or a full Lieutenant. The Okellos had nothing to do with the coup. I can tell you because I am an authority in military affairs in Uganda. The main motive of the coup was to end the war with NRA not with ex-Amin soldiers. Then these opportunists came in and used the power to try and safeguard their positions.
KENYA TIMES: But there are other fighting groups in Uganda like the UNRF, FUNA and FEDEMU who are asking for a complete disarmament and questioning your Movement’s claim to a special treatment. What have you to say to this, aren’t you afraid?
Museveni: No, not at all, you see brother I will tell you about another Banyankole saying. One day, an old woman urinated on one of these small ants. What do you call them in English…black ants? Anyway, whatever they are called, and the ant said to the old woman: “My friend I have survived many storms, and I am not going to be intimidated by you”
There was no election in 1980 - Museveni in The Monitor, Friday March 15-18, 1996
As peace talks went on between GEN Tito Okello Lutwa’s military Council/UNLA and Yoweri Museveni’s NRM/A in Nairobi 1985, following Milton Obote’s overthrow on July 27, JOHN GACHIE - Kenya Times Foreign correspondent took time off to interview Museveni. We return to that moment – about two months before NRA stormed kampala and handed power over to Museveni:
Kenya times: when you say you are not ambitious then what are you?
Museveni: we’ve got aims, we have aims. One of our aims is dignity; dignity for the African people I told you that I went to Mozambique in 1968. You cannot say that I wanted to be the president of Mozambique. But our Aim has always been dignity for the African people and dignity can mean a number of things.
One is independence: alright political independence that is;
Two, a decent level of living; economically the Africans must have all these things – decent life; they must have meals, they must have proteins, they must have carbohydrates, they must have good houses.
That’s what we mean by dignity of the African people. They must have a government that respects them. Like in Uganda you find the soldiers of the regime have been stripping women naked, raping them. That’s not dignity to the African people; that is indignity. So, that’s one of the things we are fighting for, the dignity of the African people. And as I have said, the dignity of the African people means a lot of things in economic terms, political terms, human rights, their democratic rights. That’s what we have been fighting for.
KENYA TIMES: Now since the formation of the NRM or since you went into the bush in 1981, we have never had your political or ideological stand. It has never been clear, some have called you a Marxist others a socialist, what are you?
Museveni: I am a nationalist. As I have said, if you listened to what I said about the African people, you will find that it is linked to national consciousness. So our main stand in ideological terms is nationalism, patriotism – love for our country – Uganda and Africa in general. That is our line. About Marxism, I know what Marxism is all about, what capitalism is all about, what the different philosophers said at different times. We are aware of what is being talked about but as far as Uganda is concerned and as far as Africa is concerned, we don’t think that what Uganda needs is Marxism. We think what Uganda needs is development even on Capitalistic basis if it benefits our people because a programmes is like a suit, you go and measure yourself and see what suit fits you. You are not going to go and put on Museveni’s suit and say that you are dressing nicely. You go and have yourself measured, then they will make the suit which is equal to your size, in the waist, in the legs, in the chest. It seems to me that Museveni never knew that capitalism can generate growth but no development and it looks clear to me that from the word go, Museveni has never had a clear ideology. His politics is not ideologically –oriented – he has had no ideological orientation.
KENYA TIMES: Well by then …
Museveni: The same with a political programme; in a country like Uganda, if you look at it, what is it? Mainly of peasants. They don’t have industries. These peasants are engaged in primitive form of Agriculture. Underdeveloped forms of Agriculture using a hand hoe. The population in Uganda is still small. I don’t agree with these people that Africa is overpopulated myself (and I agree with him: we have an increasing population but not overpopulated). I don’t subscribe to that view. Like in Uganda, the population is still small, it is only 15million people and Uganda is almost the size of Britain. UK is the same size as Uganda with a population of about 60m people.
In fact, Uganda is under populated. Therefore, the ideas of Marx as they were enunciated during the last century don’t fit in that kind of situation, because Marx was talking about as developed capitalist society with a big working class which didn’t own any property and who therefore had no interest in private property but wanted communal ownership of property because they had lost their property already.
In fact, Marx said, “you have nothing to lose but your chains”. If you remember he said something like that but our people are owners. Everybody owns a small plot of land, some property somewhere and some cows, so the Uganda society is a society of small owners. So you see you are talking of two different societies. For instance, capitalistic Europe in the last century or even today and backward Uganda. Because Uganda is a backward country, it has got a lot of resources but are not yet developed. Then you talk about two different things.
You can’t bring what Marx was talking in the last century because these are small owners. Small owners are interested in improving what they own. They want their small properties to expand so they have an interest in ownership and in improving the quality of that ownership. (sadly, when he came, he divested the citizens of all that belonged to the state). That’s Uganda now. On the other hand, the European countries like Germany when Marx was writing about them, like Britain, they had millions of working people who had no property at all and who couldn’t hope to have property, you see. So, if you talk about communal ownership of wealth, there you can argue with him.
But here, we are talking about a different situation. My mother and my father have no interest in communizing wealth. They have got interest in improving their small property because they already have some property. When the situation comes when we have got a huge population of people who don’t have property, maybe the people will start arguing whether property should be communal or not (COULD THIS BE THE TIME WHEN PEOPLE WANT PROPERTY TO BE COMMUNAL? HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LANGUISHING WITHOUT ANY PROPERTY?) then the topic might be relevant but not now? – is it not surprising that you came when every Uganda had property and instead of developing industries to absorb the ever increasing population, now you see Ugandans without property, without jobs without anything. At least in the European countries you talked about, many people were workers although they were exploited by the capitalists? So are we capitalists? What are we? At least, I am sure we are neither socialists nor Marxists.
KENYA TIMES: Back to the question of capitalism or Marxism. You also know that capitalism as we know it today was started in the 19th century …. at least a polished and improved version.
Museveni: oh no. capitalism was started in the 15th century.
KENYA TIMES: So, it would be fair to say that you are not opposed to Marxism. It is only that it is not appropriate to the present situation?
Museveni: it’s inappropriate to our present situation.
KENYA TIMES: What is appropriate then, what kind of ideology or political system would fit the present situation?
Museveni: To answer the question of what is appropriate now, we should first answer the question of what are our problems, because you should answer questions. It’s easier. What is the problem of Africa today? The problem of Africa today is backwardness because when you are talking about capitalism or socialism, you are talking about developed societies. Both of them are developed you should have illusions about that.
They are advanced societies. Agriculture is advanced. Industries are advanced. Social services are advanced. But they are advanced in different ways. Tunaelelewana hapo Ndugu, tunaelewana? (Do we concur here, brother). And if you want to measure the level of development there are certain indicators you can use. For instance, we use the number of doctors per number of people. I mean how many persons per every available doctor? If you use that as criteria, if you go to UK maybe there are 520 persons per doctor. In Czechoslovakia maybe there are 580 persons or 540 and East Germany maybe 530 per every available doctor. You find that in these societies, there are very many doctors but if you go to Kenya, you find there may be 250,000 people per every available doctor, in Chad, the figure maybe 85,000 people per every available doctor. If you go to Tanzania which is supposed to be socialist and Kenya capitalist, you may find the figures almost the same or slightly higher but they are in the same category of developing countries while UK and Czechoslovakia are in the same category of advanced countries.
You can use income per capita, infant mortality rates or calories consumed per day per person to establish the level of development in any country. So, now if you use these tests, you will find that generally speaking, African countries are backward, whether they say, they are capitalists or socialists or whatever they say, they are backward. On the other hand West and East European countries are generally developed.
KENYA: Yes, but then..,.
Museveni: Then the debate, you wait, the debate is now about which is a more efficient form of a developing country. Some say, capitalism is better because it gives people incentives to work and so forth and so on (HOW ABOUT EXPLOITATION? HOW ABOUT A COMBINATION OF CAPITALISM AND UNEMPLOYMENT?). These are some of the arguments they advance. The socialists say NO. Socialist policies are more efficient because of centralized planning and so on and so forth. But what are they arguing about? It’s like people in this hotel arguing that this suite is better than the other one but it is the same hotel. While someone in Kawangware, (laughing) is arguing which slum is better than the other with his friend (UGANDANS ARE NOW ARGUING WHICH THIEF, WHICH MISMANAGER AND WHICH DICTATOR IS BETTER OF ALL THE DICTATORS WE HAVE HAD?). Yes you can have your own argument there. So I am telling you that the problem of Africa is backwardness, because if you understood political economy, there are things we call for instance, productive forces. Productive forces, mean science, technology and managerial capability, you know Si unisaidie! Bwana (help me).
You know what productive forces mean: science plus technology plus managerial capability of that society. Now you find that, we can talk about productive forces of African countries being backward while those of the developed countries are advanced.
So what Africa lacks is development.
KENYA: We are all agreed on that…
Museveni: the problem is backwardness and now to overcome this backwardness for me, and this is what we have proposed time and time again, not only NRM, which came just yeaterday but even before when we were in FRONASA and the UPM during the elections – we were promising a mixed economy which would be the best strategy to follow to overcome this backwardness by mixed economy.
We mean you could use capitalistic techniques and socialist techniques wherever applicable. For instance, the Kenya Commercial Bank, who owns it? Is it not government-owned? It’s a nationalised industry and nationalisation was first used by the socialists. It is a socialist technique and why did the Kenya government, for instance, use that technique? They were right because that was the only solution.
Otherwise, if they hadn’t set up the Commercial Bank of Kenya, the only other people who had the capital were foreigners. Now if they had gone with those foreigners controlling the loaning system of the financial houses in the country, they would have served the interests of the foreigners. So it was clever for the government of Kenya to try and own commercial financial institutions, because once you own them, then you might use them to give a loan to someone who might do something for the country (DID HE FORGET THAT AT A TIME UCB WAS SOLD), while if you don’t own them the foreign banks will not give you a loan if you want to establish a shoe-making company. If the shoe importing is done by foreign interests, they won’t allow it because of the control on the loaning policy.
On the other hand, like here in Kenya, the farms are owned by the private individuals. Now that is a capitalistic technique, because you are using private enterprise to run farms. So, for us we have always recommended that a mixed economy and approach, depending on the industry involved, may be the best way to overcome backwardness. If we attacked it cleverly you can be able within 15 -20 years, to overcome it.
KENYA TIMES: To probably leave the question of ideology …would you…
Museveni: No, we cannot leave it. We should only leave it when you absolutely sure of our position, because you should understand it. So we are saying therefore, the main problem is that of underdevelopment, we should get it out clearly.
KENYA TIMES: The main problem of the countries or Africa?
Museveni: Both, the main problem is the underdevelopment of the economy of the society because society is also underdeveloped and politics – because politics is also underdeveloped. Politics in Africa is very underdeveloped. That is why African governments are afraid of criticism and things like that – because they feel insecure.
Politically, we are underdeveloped. That’s why you find lack of democracy, because of insecurity. The regimes are insecure; they are afraid of people, afraid of different opinions and afraid of so many things at the same time. But if they were not afraid, then you can talk, like in England, you can go and talk and wear placards and nobody cares about you because you are not a threat to anybody.
KENYA TIMES: Would you allow that thing say in Uganda?
Museveni: W-e-l-l, … I think eh… the problem in Uganda and in other African countries as far as the political question is concerned, although there are many questions involved, political questions, economic questions and many other things, the position of Uganda and other Africa countries as far as the political question is concerned is lack of understanding the political problems on the part of the leaders as well as on those whom they are leading.
So that, you find that, they are sometimes arguing about the wrong things. I have told you about the question of parties in Uganda which are based partly on religious grounds. Some are Catholics, some are Protestants. Now this is not a correct demarcation. So, I am not sure whether to allow these people to continue fighting and arguing as Catholics and Protestants. Will that help the demarcation? So, it is not easy to say, allow the freedom of this or that. Me, I think the main problem would be to educate the population about their real interests because sometimes they are pushing other people’s interests – and then the bad elements use their ignorance to push their own interests – using the population and making the people forget about their real interests.
KENYA TIMES: Won’t you then be falling into the same trap that African leaders have fallen into time and time again, condescending; as it were leaders deciding, arrogating to themselves the right to decide who is a bad element or not. Won’t you be perpetuating a similar thing?
Museveni: Not for us. Not for us. Because for us we don’t arrogate ourselves if you say that there is a difference between Catholics and Protestants and that this difference is irreconcilable, we shall not agree with you. And it’s not arrogating ourselves the right to decide. We are not doing that because for us we ask ourselves: What is the difference between the Catholics and Protestants? They both need roads, clean water, social services and other amenities. If we tell them that these differences are artificial divisions and they tell us we have no right to tell them so, we shall tell them, well you are wrong and we are duty-bound to tell them they are wrong (LIKEWISE, THOSE WHO TELL M7 HE IS WRONG IN THE WAY HE COMPORTS HIMSELF AND RUNS GOVERNMENT ARE DUTY-BOUND TO TELL HIM SO).
KENYA TIMES: How do you go about telling them that they are wrong?
Museveni: Well, we educate them about their real interests, what’s good for all of us. This can be argued openly …. You can also not confuse weak leadership with democracy or confusion with democracy. You cannot tell me that such fellows fighting on the basis of religion or tribal grounds are encouraging democracy. I don’t think so. No, because the best way to test this out: why this woman or man is fighting with the other one and where they clash fundamentally. If you don’t know why they clash, then you are wrong.
KENYA TIMES: Back to Uganda, now, you contested the 1980 elections but never won a seat yourself?
Museveni: It was rigged, there was no election, there was no election. My constituency was stretching from the Tanzanian border up to Lake George. That is a distance of about 100 miles. You see for yourself on the map. You see they were demarcating the constituency in such a way that they would ensure that the people they didn’t want didn’t win the elections. That was problem number one. We call this in English gerrymandering the constituency, manipulating the constituency so that you exclude the people you don’t want to be elected.
We had told them that the constituency boundaries should follow administrative boundaries as much as possible because administrative boundaries exist.
You know in Uganda we have what we call counties and sub counties. Now, a constituency is supposed to have something like 100,000 people. Some had more like 160,000; others had less like 850,000 to 95,000 people. For us, our movement, the idea was that why tamper with these administrative boundaries? Why not have a constituency for Parliamentary elections? At the same time it is the county for administrative purposes and at the same time an economic unit. A development unit because you can use it for economic planning.
For them, they were not interested in this. They were interested in finding constituencies where they didn’t like the man and remove it. Secondly, they were actually removing votes, you know the votes were in four ballot boxes, so that, because there were four parties and if they shook the box of their man and found he didn’t have many votes they would then empty the other boxes.
For us we wanted one ballot box and one ballot paper with all the names of the candidates and the people would make their choice on one ballot paper and put it in one ballot box with all of us looking – but they wanted four boxes and four ballot papers. So, there was no election, there were no elections at all.
KENYA TIMES: How do you react to accusations that you are not Ugandan , that you come from Rwanda and that you should leave Ugandans to sort their political problems?
Museveni: Okay, suppose I was a Rwandese by origin, just for the sake of argument and I have lived in Uganda for many years. Why shouldn’t I take part in the politics of Uganda? …after somebody stayed in Uganda for more than seven years as an African from a neighbouring country, he can apply to be a citizen of Uganda. Even from that point of view – that so and so is not a Ugandan - he is a Rwandese, it is rubbish as far as I am concerned. Indians here. If Indians can be Kenyan, or Ugandan why shouldn’t an African from Kenya or Rwanda be a citizen of Uganda for that matter – if he has lived in Uganda for twenty or thirty years if he wants to stay there, why shouldn’t he have the same rights?
This is rubbish…brother, from these fellows who have failed to run Africa, they are always looking for excuses, scapegoats you know like Hitler, who when he failed to run Germany he started blaming the Jews and said the problem of Germany was Jews. …this is all rubbish.
But anyway, to come to the question, of whether I am a Ugandan or not I am definitely a Ugandan by birth.
Point number two, even if I had come from Rwanda, I would still be proud as I am entitled as I am today, to fight for justice in Uganda – because that’s where I would be living. (WAS HE REALLY FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE; THEN WHERE IS IT?). This is rubbish wajinga, wajinga kabisa , hawa watu shenzitu. (They are stupid, stupid, foolish, foolish).
These are African leaders who are politically bankrupt, they use what we call in philosophy obscurantism, to obscure issues using diversionary tactics. It’s like saying although, I am a thief, the one accusing me is a Munyankole. To me Africans are a wonderful people. I am not proud of these boundaries they were put there by colonialists, by Bismarck, hawa watu ni wajinga kabisa shenzi tu . Instead of taking advantage of the common links like the Bantu people near the lake, you see I can understand almost all these people without so much problem from Mt Elgon. These Samia people, Baluhya , right up to Rwanda and even these Nyerere people across the lake in Tanzania, why can’t these people take advantage of these common linguistic heritage like other countries?
Museveni’s politics is Pan Africanism for political and economic reasons. These people are just incredible, you see there a Banyankole saying that “the hairstyle is made according to the size and shape of the head”.
KENYA TIMES: The media impression is that you are the stumbling block to the Uganda peace agreement by resisting disarmament. What have you to say to these allegations?
Museveni: What is disarmament? It’s an insult to our people. They are talking about bringing foreign forces, Uganda is not a colony. The army is the core of the government, because it can protect and guarantee the government. How can a government by itself propose that it be disarmed? Me, I wouldn’t even whisper about it.
What we need is a small training force. Why do they have so much faith in foreign armies? Obote had British, Korean, Sierra Leonean , Australian, Tanzanian and Egyptian military trainers and even the North Koreans were actually fighting and sisi tunawapondaponda ( and we still crushed them regardless).
It is not necessary, not advisable to have foreign troops or do they want security from foreign soldiers, worried about their own safety? Why should a foreign power play a colonial role or a mercenary role in Uganda? We proposed a formation of a joint force made up about 4000 soldiers from NRA and UNLA and then some observers from some Commonwealth countries to see the integration and formation of a new army.
I cannot fail to get 15,000 soldiers to guard me and I don’t pay them like the present case in Kampala. All we give them is food rations. Nothing more because they believe in the cause of the fight.
KENYA TIMES: But where do you get the money from to afford to buy them food?
Museveni: We get money by capturing it from the regime. We confiscate it; not stealing and we issue receipts for it and we shall account for it to the people of Uganda at a later date, but not to the regime in Kampala.
KENYA TIMES: You are also accused of being a tribalist. That the Movement (NRM) – and especially the people attending the peace talks – are mainly Banyankole and only three Baganda who are alleged to be rejects by their own people?
You see, brother, these people are not serious. First, I am not a Ugandan. Then I am a tribalist, why all these contradictions? I have not cared to select the tribe. All I care is that someone is doing a job. You see brother, brother, in the NRA, we don’t follow tribes, because if we did, it would mean that in theatre, a Kikuyu is the doctor, a Kalenjin is a nurse and the Kamba is a theatre technician. It would be ridiculous.
If you bring tribalism tunakupondaponda (we crush you) until you are not seen and that is why we are defeating these bastards because we look for quality. We have Banyankole, Basoga, Bakiga, Banyoro and Baganda.
KENYA TIMES: What would make the two agree on peaceful solution to Ugandan problems?
Museveni: there are only three positive elements in Uganda. One, our Movement (NRM), the political parties (UPC and DP), if they can only agree to come together and the young soldiers and officers of the UNLA, who staged the coup which was derailed and handed over to their bosses who were never involved in it.
KENYA TIMES: What about Tito Okello and Basilio Okello? Are you saying that they were not involved in the coup against Obote?
Museveni: Basilio Okello and Tito Okello had nothing to do with the coup. In fact, Tito Okello almost fled to Sudan and the fellow who announced the coup was certainly Okello Koro – if you heard the first broadcast of the coup. In fact he defected to our side towards the end of September. He was either a Second Lt. or a full Lieutenant. The Okellos had nothing to do with the coup. I can tell you because I am an authority in military affairs in Uganda. The main motive of the coup was to end the war with NRA not with ex-Amin soldiers. Then these opportunists came in and used the power to try and safeguard their positions.
KENYA TIMES: But there are other fighting groups in Uganda like the UNRF, FUNA and FEDEMU who are asking for a complete disarmament and questioning your Movement’s claim to a special treatment. What have you to say to this, aren’t you afraid?
Museveni: No, not at all, you see brother I will tell you about another Banyankole saying. One day, an old woman urinated on one of these small ants. What do you call them in English…black ants? Anyway, whatever they are called, and the ant said to the old woman: “My friend I have survived many storms, and I am not going to be intimidated by you”
Message from a persecuted human rights activist
By Vincent Nuwagaba
Published by The Uganda Record on 29 January 2010
I commend many of you for the concern you have shown me in regard to the plight I am undergoing. I have told you before that I am about to be convicted and pushed to Luzira on trumped up charges of assault and threatening violence.
On 21st January, just a week ago, I went to Kampala City Hall court expecting to
have the ruling for threatening violence read to me. However, the Magistrate told me
that the ruling would be read for me today on Friday 29 January 2010.
Shockingly, I was told by a certain lawyer that the Magistrate was set to convict me
for assault. The lawyer himself knows that the charges are politically motivated and
the state has now realised that the only means through which I can be stopped from
sharing my ideas with the masses is by having me maliciously convicted.
I never assaulted a police woman; I was arrested by five police officers with two
guns; I was beaten terribly and deprived of my money; I was denied police bond
allegedly on the orders of the Inspector General of Police Kale Kayihura; I have
attempted seeing Gen. Kayihura and it has been impossible; my case against the
Attorney General and Dr Onen was dismissed on 28 August 2009 and to date no ground for its dismissal has been told to me.
I have been pushed against the wall so much so that I am tempted sometimes to do
something bad. But on second thought I realise that I shouldn't drink from the cup
of bitterness.
I know the NRM gurus might think that they can torture me incessantly and ultimately kill me but for sure, the people of Bushenyi and all the people that know me in and outside Uganda will never forget although some may reluctantly forgive them.
First, it is very clear that in criminal charges, the burden of proof lies with the
prosecution and the degree of proof must be beyond reasonable doubt. Whoever could have attended the hearing of my cases must know quite well that if our justice
system was fair, the so-called state witnesses should have been arrested for they
were committing an offence of perjury.
I remember the Magistrate himself telling the State Attorney, thus: "State, your
witness is more of a dramatist than a witness".
I have said before that I expect no justice in Museveni's judiciary but what pains
me so much is the silence of the Ugandan human rights defenders who know pretty well my ordeal and have done nothing to come to my rescue. I wonder whether the label human rights defenders continues being relevant if they cannot stand by the helpless like me.
If I would borrow from Martin Luther King Jr, at last we shall not remember
the oppression of our enemies but the silence of our friends. It is on this ground
that I call upon the friends to the human rights defenders to break their silence.
I wouldn't mind being convicted if I was guilty. I wouldn't even fear being jailed
in Luzira if I was a criminal. But the truth of the matter is that the government is
using that as a strategy to kill me for they know that it will be quite easy to
poison me or to take me to a prison farm where they can shoot me and say, I was
attempting to escape.
I opposed the increment of fees up to 126% and I still oppose it. I strongly believe
that any functional state must be able to provide education, health services and
infrastructure to its citizens.
I still oppose the new fees structures in Makerere University. And I have argued before that Museveni’s government must fund public educational institutions and subsidise private educational institutions because people trained therein are not private people but citizens who will immensely contribute to national development.
In fact, as the semester opens next week, year one students in Makerere will do whatever is possible to make sure that the sudden, unprecedented and heartless fees increment aimed at making us the sons and daughters of the peasants fail to study is reversed. The government has money that has always been wasted in State House.
I know of Museveni’s advisers and ministers’ children studying on State House scholarship. Are we slaves in our country that we must be exploited and live under slavery and servitude? If Museveni and his people have realized that leadership is complicated let them pave way for us the young blood to take over from them.
I have argued before that Museveni of 1986 is fundamentally different from the Museveni of 2010. We must liberate ourselves from the predatory Museveni and destructive NRM.
I beg that in case I die, all my views that I have documented be published in black
and white so that our descendants learnt what I stood for and what I died for. I am
not at all inclined to sell my conscience. I will not sell my country at a price; I
will not sell my cherished values.
People that have tremendously made a contribution in society never died as rich men. Jesus Christ whom majority of us worship daily died a poor man materially but mentally and morally very rich. I prefer material poverty to moral and mental poverty which many of our politicians are suffering from. I would rather die for a genuine cause than live in subjugation and under oppression.
There has been a misconception that all westerners are benefiting from Museveni.
Never has this ever been true! The beneficiaries in the Museveni's regime are a few
people from his Hima sub-ethnic group and his old boys at Ntare and Dar-es-Salaam.
This is not how the state should be run.
I know many people will argue that everyone is sectarian in a way. Possibly, the
mistake Uganda made is to accept a person who never studied from Makerere to be
president because then he had very few Ugandan friends. But also, that argument may
not be tenable because Mwalimu Nyerere, Benjamin Mkapa and Mwai Kibaki never studied from their countries for university degrees. Thus, one can argue that Museveni's sectarianism and myopia are intrinsically and inherently rooted in him as a person.
There are people who have accused me of not respecting the president because he is a fountain of honour. They are wrong. The president is a fountain of honour only and
only when he comports himself in an honourable manner. Ugandans deserve better.
I have written to the president complaining about corruption and grave human rights
violations but the reward I have got instead has been illegal arrests; detentions
without trial; incommunicado detentions and a reminder that this country has owners.
Assuming Museveni owned Uganda, does he also own my grandfather’s land in which I stay? Does he also own my bank account from which I draw money to foot my bills?
This is a litmus test to all the opposition members who encourage Ugandans to stand
up and challenge their leaders. If none can standby me then it will be difficult for
very many young men and women to stand to be counted. Hence, the opposition can as well forget about the 2011 election and count it a fait accompli.
To those who share with me my ordeal I only appeal to you to extend a helping hand
through offering me legal aid and financial support. I strongly believe that I stand
for the noblest cause which shouldn’t die anyhow.
Should I be convicted today, it might be the last time you hear about me for I
have clearly learnt that the NRM's intention is to sacrifice me as a martyr.
I have learnt this from a top ranking UPDF officer who told me of a new spy unit called the “Dirty Tricks Unit.” I was told that the Dirty Tricks Unit follows their targets
wherever they go and that they even use their spouses or their landlords. If they
fail to find any dent on you, they will economically incapacitate you and make life
impossible for you. This is exactly what they have done.
END
Vincent Nuwagaba is a human rights defender and can be contacted on email: mpvessynuwagaba@gmail.com or
cell: +256772843552
+256702843552
+256712843552
Published by The Uganda Record on 29 January 2010
I commend many of you for the concern you have shown me in regard to the plight I am undergoing. I have told you before that I am about to be convicted and pushed to Luzira on trumped up charges of assault and threatening violence.
On 21st January, just a week ago, I went to Kampala City Hall court expecting to
have the ruling for threatening violence read to me. However, the Magistrate told me
that the ruling would be read for me today on Friday 29 January 2010.
Shockingly, I was told by a certain lawyer that the Magistrate was set to convict me
for assault. The lawyer himself knows that the charges are politically motivated and
the state has now realised that the only means through which I can be stopped from
sharing my ideas with the masses is by having me maliciously convicted.
I never assaulted a police woman; I was arrested by five police officers with two
guns; I was beaten terribly and deprived of my money; I was denied police bond
allegedly on the orders of the Inspector General of Police Kale Kayihura; I have
attempted seeing Gen. Kayihura and it has been impossible; my case against the
Attorney General and Dr Onen was dismissed on 28 August 2009 and to date no ground for its dismissal has been told to me.
I have been pushed against the wall so much so that I am tempted sometimes to do
something bad. But on second thought I realise that I shouldn't drink from the cup
of bitterness.
I know the NRM gurus might think that they can torture me incessantly and ultimately kill me but for sure, the people of Bushenyi and all the people that know me in and outside Uganda will never forget although some may reluctantly forgive them.
First, it is very clear that in criminal charges, the burden of proof lies with the
prosecution and the degree of proof must be beyond reasonable doubt. Whoever could have attended the hearing of my cases must know quite well that if our justice
system was fair, the so-called state witnesses should have been arrested for they
were committing an offence of perjury.
I remember the Magistrate himself telling the State Attorney, thus: "State, your
witness is more of a dramatist than a witness".
I have said before that I expect no justice in Museveni's judiciary but what pains
me so much is the silence of the Ugandan human rights defenders who know pretty well my ordeal and have done nothing to come to my rescue. I wonder whether the label human rights defenders continues being relevant if they cannot stand by the helpless like me.
If I would borrow from Martin Luther King Jr, at last we shall not remember
the oppression of our enemies but the silence of our friends. It is on this ground
that I call upon the friends to the human rights defenders to break their silence.
I wouldn't mind being convicted if I was guilty. I wouldn't even fear being jailed
in Luzira if I was a criminal. But the truth of the matter is that the government is
using that as a strategy to kill me for they know that it will be quite easy to
poison me or to take me to a prison farm where they can shoot me and say, I was
attempting to escape.
I opposed the increment of fees up to 126% and I still oppose it. I strongly believe
that any functional state must be able to provide education, health services and
infrastructure to its citizens.
I still oppose the new fees structures in Makerere University. And I have argued before that Museveni’s government must fund public educational institutions and subsidise private educational institutions because people trained therein are not private people but citizens who will immensely contribute to national development.
In fact, as the semester opens next week, year one students in Makerere will do whatever is possible to make sure that the sudden, unprecedented and heartless fees increment aimed at making us the sons and daughters of the peasants fail to study is reversed. The government has money that has always been wasted in State House.
I know of Museveni’s advisers and ministers’ children studying on State House scholarship. Are we slaves in our country that we must be exploited and live under slavery and servitude? If Museveni and his people have realized that leadership is complicated let them pave way for us the young blood to take over from them.
I have argued before that Museveni of 1986 is fundamentally different from the Museveni of 2010. We must liberate ourselves from the predatory Museveni and destructive NRM.
I beg that in case I die, all my views that I have documented be published in black
and white so that our descendants learnt what I stood for and what I died for. I am
not at all inclined to sell my conscience. I will not sell my country at a price; I
will not sell my cherished values.
People that have tremendously made a contribution in society never died as rich men. Jesus Christ whom majority of us worship daily died a poor man materially but mentally and morally very rich. I prefer material poverty to moral and mental poverty which many of our politicians are suffering from. I would rather die for a genuine cause than live in subjugation and under oppression.
There has been a misconception that all westerners are benefiting from Museveni.
Never has this ever been true! The beneficiaries in the Museveni's regime are a few
people from his Hima sub-ethnic group and his old boys at Ntare and Dar-es-Salaam.
This is not how the state should be run.
I know many people will argue that everyone is sectarian in a way. Possibly, the
mistake Uganda made is to accept a person who never studied from Makerere to be
president because then he had very few Ugandan friends. But also, that argument may
not be tenable because Mwalimu Nyerere, Benjamin Mkapa and Mwai Kibaki never studied from their countries for university degrees. Thus, one can argue that Museveni's sectarianism and myopia are intrinsically and inherently rooted in him as a person.
There are people who have accused me of not respecting the president because he is a fountain of honour. They are wrong. The president is a fountain of honour only and
only when he comports himself in an honourable manner. Ugandans deserve better.
I have written to the president complaining about corruption and grave human rights
violations but the reward I have got instead has been illegal arrests; detentions
without trial; incommunicado detentions and a reminder that this country has owners.
Assuming Museveni owned Uganda, does he also own my grandfather’s land in which I stay? Does he also own my bank account from which I draw money to foot my bills?
This is a litmus test to all the opposition members who encourage Ugandans to stand
up and challenge their leaders. If none can standby me then it will be difficult for
very many young men and women to stand to be counted. Hence, the opposition can as well forget about the 2011 election and count it a fait accompli.
To those who share with me my ordeal I only appeal to you to extend a helping hand
through offering me legal aid and financial support. I strongly believe that I stand
for the noblest cause which shouldn’t die anyhow.
Should I be convicted today, it might be the last time you hear about me for I
have clearly learnt that the NRM's intention is to sacrifice me as a martyr.
I have learnt this from a top ranking UPDF officer who told me of a new spy unit called the “Dirty Tricks Unit.” I was told that the Dirty Tricks Unit follows their targets
wherever they go and that they even use their spouses or their landlords. If they
fail to find any dent on you, they will economically incapacitate you and make life
impossible for you. This is exactly what they have done.
END
Vincent Nuwagaba is a human rights defender and can be contacted on email: mpvessynuwagaba@gmail.com or
cell: +256772843552
+256702843552
+256712843552
Govt wants suspects held for 3 months
NEWS | February 15, 2009
Govt wants suspects held for 3 months
MERCY NALUGO
Parliament
The government is pushing for an amendment in the Constitution to introduce a new law to have suspects produced before courts of law within 90days instead of the 48 hours which is presently stipulated by law.
The proposal if enacted into law would mean that all terrorism suspects and suspected high level criminals would be detained for three months without trial.
However, the Constitution stipulates that no person shall be detained beyond 48 hours without being produced in courts.
Article 23(4)b says that suspects are brought to court not later than 48 hours from the time of arrest. Defence Minister, Dr Crispus Kiyonga, tabled the proposal before the Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Committee currently discussing recommendations of the Uganda Human Rights Commission (UHRC) in the their annual reports that have been issued between 1999-2007.
“We are making a formal request that the 48 hour in the law is not very practical; we are asking Parliament to amend this particular clause so that the hours are extended to three months,” Dr Kiyonga said on Friday. “The practical difficulty of interrogating suspects of serious crimes has led to the abuse of this law with much regret,” the minister said.
The UHRC has over the years observed that security agencies were detaining suspects illegally without trial for more than 48 hours.
Dr Kiyonga reasoned that the 48 hours are not enough to allow security forces carry out enough investigations before a suspect is produced in the court for trial.
“We in the Ministry of Defence and the army are saying that certain crimes need to be investigated thoroughly, for example, the terrorists are callous and very clever. If you say that within 48 hours we have gathered enough evidence then it affects our work,” he said.
He cited Britain where the law was amended in 2006 to provide for up to 28 days detention without trial.
Committee Chairperson, Steven Tashobya (NRM, Kajara County) said the three months is a long period.
“But these are views of the Ministry of Defence. As a Committee; we shall analyse them so that we come up with good recommendations putting in mind the security of the country vis-Ã -vis people’s human rights ,” Mr Tashobya said.
Govt wants suspects held for 3 months
MERCY NALUGO
Parliament
The government is pushing for an amendment in the Constitution to introduce a new law to have suspects produced before courts of law within 90days instead of the 48 hours which is presently stipulated by law.
The proposal if enacted into law would mean that all terrorism suspects and suspected high level criminals would be detained for three months without trial.
However, the Constitution stipulates that no person shall be detained beyond 48 hours without being produced in courts.
Article 23(4)b says that suspects are brought to court not later than 48 hours from the time of arrest. Defence Minister, Dr Crispus Kiyonga, tabled the proposal before the Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Committee currently discussing recommendations of the Uganda Human Rights Commission (UHRC) in the their annual reports that have been issued between 1999-2007.
“We are making a formal request that the 48 hour in the law is not very practical; we are asking Parliament to amend this particular clause so that the hours are extended to three months,” Dr Kiyonga said on Friday. “The practical difficulty of interrogating suspects of serious crimes has led to the abuse of this law with much regret,” the minister said.
The UHRC has over the years observed that security agencies were detaining suspects illegally without trial for more than 48 hours.
Dr Kiyonga reasoned that the 48 hours are not enough to allow security forces carry out enough investigations before a suspect is produced in the court for trial.
“We in the Ministry of Defence and the army are saying that certain crimes need to be investigated thoroughly, for example, the terrorists are callous and very clever. If you say that within 48 hours we have gathered enough evidence then it affects our work,” he said.
He cited Britain where the law was amended in 2006 to provide for up to 28 days detention without trial.
Committee Chairperson, Steven Tashobya (NRM, Kajara County) said the three months is a long period.
“But these are views of the Ministry of Defence. As a Committee; we shall analyse them so that we come up with good recommendations putting in mind the security of the country vis-Ã -vis people’s human rights ,” Mr Tashobya said.
African Children deserve better from their govts
First Published by Daily Monitor, June 16, 2009
The 16th of June is the African Child Day. The Global Pan African Movement is organising a celebration at Serena Hotel ¬¬. As the adage goes, charity begins at home. I would therefore wish to use this article to reflect on the Ugandan-African child. From a human rights angle, the Ugandan Child is a classic case of the Wretched of the World to use Franz Fanon’s parlance. We have many laws/human rights instruments both local and international to defend the rights of the children here in Uganda. Yet child abuse continues unabated. Crucial among the legal/human rights instruments we have are ILO Conventions 182, 38 & 81 which are Worst forms of Child Labour convention, Minimum Age Convention and Labour inspection Convention, UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and many Domestic Laws. Accordingly, we are not short of legislative and human rights instruments. Nonetheless, law enforcement has eluded this once pearl of Africa which some pundits argue is steadily turning into a dud of Africa, God forbid.
As we celebrate the day of the African Child, the following crucial issues ought to be born in mind; the phenomenon of child labour, the plight of street children, child prostitution, child sacrifice, defilement, child neglect, child trafficking and the socio-economic welfare of our children with emphasis put on education and health. It is apparent the quality of Universal Primary School Education is wanting to say the least. Many believe putting ones child in a UPE school is synonymous with sentencing them to perpetual ignorance and killing their future. Our health centres are equally death traps and this puts our children into an awkward situation. The situation is made more precarious when it comes to HIV/AIDS infected and affected children. Most of them are on the streets as they lost their parents and have none to take care of them. Ultimately, they have turned into petty thieves, prostitutes, drug addicts and criminals of all sorts.
Foundation for Human Rights Initiative carries out research on juvenile justice but so far the findings reveal terrible, horrible, horrific and horrendous experiences that our children go through. Too many offences are committed against our children as if our society is heartless. When you visit many courts, you find that the criminal offence with the highest frequency is defilement with some heartless parents defiling their own children. This has been confounded by sodomy which has become a recent phenomenon.
Cases of worst forms of child labour abound; with some children working in quarries. This is hazardous to children both physically and mentally. Ironically, these depraved practices are not African! Typical Africans are decent people with a high moral integrity. Africans are supposed to be guided by the concept of Ubuntu. Ubuntu means being humane and is concomitant with values, of love, mutual respect and most importantly social responsibility. Ubuntu resonates and dovetails very well with the human rights movement whose cornerstone is threefold: human dignity, human welfare and equality. Although the wave is in favour of liberal democracy which accentuates the primacy of the individual liberties and interests, I am of the view that Africans must embrace social democracy. It is social democracy that will ensure the provision of the socio-economic needs for our people such as health, education, jobs, inter alia. I must state that the African Child and particularly the Ugandan child is a victim of individualism. I am sure that we don’t experience a dearth of selfless people. Otherwise, some of us couldn’t have gone to school.
Let’s reflect on the welfare of our children, be compassionate to the children of the poor who incidentally give us votes as we promise to reciprocate by heeding their plight. The future lies in our children and every child whether from a rich or poor background must be helped to actualise their full potential. Liberators, history shows have not been children of the rich. Jesus was born in a manger and his foster father was a mere carpenter. I make a passionate call for prioritising the needs of our down-trodden children. For God and my country!
Vincent Nuwagaba
Vnuwagaba@gmail.com
The Author is a secretary for Pan African Movement Uganda chapter and works with the Research Division of Foundation for Human Rights Initiative.
The 16th of June is the African Child Day. The Global Pan African Movement is organising a celebration at Serena Hotel ¬¬. As the adage goes, charity begins at home. I would therefore wish to use this article to reflect on the Ugandan-African child. From a human rights angle, the Ugandan Child is a classic case of the Wretched of the World to use Franz Fanon’s parlance. We have many laws/human rights instruments both local and international to defend the rights of the children here in Uganda. Yet child abuse continues unabated. Crucial among the legal/human rights instruments we have are ILO Conventions 182, 38 & 81 which are Worst forms of Child Labour convention, Minimum Age Convention and Labour inspection Convention, UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and many Domestic Laws. Accordingly, we are not short of legislative and human rights instruments. Nonetheless, law enforcement has eluded this once pearl of Africa which some pundits argue is steadily turning into a dud of Africa, God forbid.
As we celebrate the day of the African Child, the following crucial issues ought to be born in mind; the phenomenon of child labour, the plight of street children, child prostitution, child sacrifice, defilement, child neglect, child trafficking and the socio-economic welfare of our children with emphasis put on education and health. It is apparent the quality of Universal Primary School Education is wanting to say the least. Many believe putting ones child in a UPE school is synonymous with sentencing them to perpetual ignorance and killing their future. Our health centres are equally death traps and this puts our children into an awkward situation. The situation is made more precarious when it comes to HIV/AIDS infected and affected children. Most of them are on the streets as they lost their parents and have none to take care of them. Ultimately, they have turned into petty thieves, prostitutes, drug addicts and criminals of all sorts.
Foundation for Human Rights Initiative carries out research on juvenile justice but so far the findings reveal terrible, horrible, horrific and horrendous experiences that our children go through. Too many offences are committed against our children as if our society is heartless. When you visit many courts, you find that the criminal offence with the highest frequency is defilement with some heartless parents defiling their own children. This has been confounded by sodomy which has become a recent phenomenon.
Cases of worst forms of child labour abound; with some children working in quarries. This is hazardous to children both physically and mentally. Ironically, these depraved practices are not African! Typical Africans are decent people with a high moral integrity. Africans are supposed to be guided by the concept of Ubuntu. Ubuntu means being humane and is concomitant with values, of love, mutual respect and most importantly social responsibility. Ubuntu resonates and dovetails very well with the human rights movement whose cornerstone is threefold: human dignity, human welfare and equality. Although the wave is in favour of liberal democracy which accentuates the primacy of the individual liberties and interests, I am of the view that Africans must embrace social democracy. It is social democracy that will ensure the provision of the socio-economic needs for our people such as health, education, jobs, inter alia. I must state that the African Child and particularly the Ugandan child is a victim of individualism. I am sure that we don’t experience a dearth of selfless people. Otherwise, some of us couldn’t have gone to school.
Let’s reflect on the welfare of our children, be compassionate to the children of the poor who incidentally give us votes as we promise to reciprocate by heeding their plight. The future lies in our children and every child whether from a rich or poor background must be helped to actualise their full potential. Liberators, history shows have not been children of the rich. Jesus was born in a manger and his foster father was a mere carpenter. I make a passionate call for prioritising the needs of our down-trodden children. For God and my country!
Vincent Nuwagaba
Vnuwagaba@gmail.com
The Author is a secretary for Pan African Movement Uganda chapter and works with the Research Division of Foundation for Human Rights Initiative.
Why NRM is a cadre not a mass party
This article was published by 256news under my column The Mouthpiece on 29 May 2011. Dr Paul Ssemogerere, NRM, Reality Check: Political Party Financing in Uganda, statehouse, Vincent Nuwagaba
Why NRM is a cadre not a mass party
On Thursday, 26 May at the launch of former Democratic President Dr Paul Ssemogerere’s book, titled “Reality Check: Political Party Financing in Uganda”, a statehouse official, Hippo Twebaze said NRM is a mass party meaning it needs more funding than any other party because it has to reach out to its vast membership. Hippo is a political scientist who described himself as the only Marxist left in Uganda. Those who have read political science know very well that Karl Marx the father of Marxism ideology foresaw and worked for an egalitarian society. Marxism is diametrically opposed to ultra capitalism exhibited by the ruling NRM.
In fact, Marxists and capitalists are like oil and water. Accordingly, if Hippo is a Marxist, he had a place in the NRM party up to 1987 when the party experienced an ideological shift to neoliberalism and adopted Structural Adjustment Programmes (SAPs). I will not labour to explain what Marxism is for lack of space. Rather, I wish to state what a mass party should be. Political Scientists classify political parties into various classes. However, this article focuses on mass and cadre parties. For the benefit of all readers, I will not raise technical terms lest many readers fail to understand me.
Mass parties are not defined by the number of members they have in the register rather on the programmes that aim to improve the lives of the masses. The NRM leaders and cadres can call their party a mass party only if their party has programmes that are appealing to the masses. I know the NRM cadres will rush to remind us of UPE, USE, “Prosperity for All” (PFA) and so forth. I am hesitant to believe that these programmes were intended to uplift the masses. While in principle, they sound good, in practice they were introduced for political expediency – remember UPE was promised because Museveni feared Ssemo as he is fondly called was about to trounce him on polls. Otherwise, why would he wait for the campaign time to adopt programmes? UPE which started in 1997 is supposed to have its products in the first year at the university, I urge whoever is capable to go to Makerere University and establish how many of the 1st year Medicine or Pharmacy or Law students went through UPE schools. A mass party should empower its members economically, intellectually and otherwise.
How many of the NRM MPs have the wherewithal to oppose the NRM chairman on any anti-people programme? How many NRM MPs have opposed the proliferation of districts, ministries or even the appointment of people implicated in corruption scandals to public offices? Wait a moment – you will hear that the proposed constitutional amendments have been passed into law by our MPs who in practice are Museveni’s Parliamentarians – thus the label MPs. We have A few days ago, we saw the appointment of a person that was implicated in the Chogm saga to a de facto number two position? How many sons and daughters of the peasants can ably access jobs in URA, NPA or how many of the sons of the peasants can head projects in ministry of finance? How many of the masses are able to make independent decisions when it comes to voting?
I know virtually all NRM voters practice what is called pocket-book voting as opposed to socio-tropic voting. Pocket-book voting is where the goodies or freebies one gets during the campaign period determine how and for whom they cast their vote. This is opposed to socio-tropic voting which is influenced by the issues raised by the candidates. This is not the case with the NRM.
I hear in the yellow book, there are 8 or 9 million. How many of the mass membership turned to vote the NRM during the February election? How come with evidence of pre-ticked ballot stuffing presented by Ssekikubo and Dr Besigye, the NRM got only 5million votes? By the way, my mother is also in the register of the “Mass Party”. How does the party account to her if when she was suffering from fibroids she couldn’t get treatment in Mulago. I surmise that NRM is a cadre party because only the party cadres benefit from being its members because they have access to state resources – thanks to the spoils system.
Vincent Nuwagaba
Vincent Nuwagaba is a human rights defender
vnuwagaba@gmail.com
Why NRM is a cadre not a mass party
On Thursday, 26 May at the launch of former Democratic President Dr Paul Ssemogerere’s book, titled “Reality Check: Political Party Financing in Uganda”, a statehouse official, Hippo Twebaze said NRM is a mass party meaning it needs more funding than any other party because it has to reach out to its vast membership. Hippo is a political scientist who described himself as the only Marxist left in Uganda. Those who have read political science know very well that Karl Marx the father of Marxism ideology foresaw and worked for an egalitarian society. Marxism is diametrically opposed to ultra capitalism exhibited by the ruling NRM.
In fact, Marxists and capitalists are like oil and water. Accordingly, if Hippo is a Marxist, he had a place in the NRM party up to 1987 when the party experienced an ideological shift to neoliberalism and adopted Structural Adjustment Programmes (SAPs). I will not labour to explain what Marxism is for lack of space. Rather, I wish to state what a mass party should be. Political Scientists classify political parties into various classes. However, this article focuses on mass and cadre parties. For the benefit of all readers, I will not raise technical terms lest many readers fail to understand me.
Mass parties are not defined by the number of members they have in the register rather on the programmes that aim to improve the lives of the masses. The NRM leaders and cadres can call their party a mass party only if their party has programmes that are appealing to the masses. I know the NRM cadres will rush to remind us of UPE, USE, “Prosperity for All” (PFA) and so forth. I am hesitant to believe that these programmes were intended to uplift the masses. While in principle, they sound good, in practice they were introduced for political expediency – remember UPE was promised because Museveni feared Ssemo as he is fondly called was about to trounce him on polls. Otherwise, why would he wait for the campaign time to adopt programmes? UPE which started in 1997 is supposed to have its products in the first year at the university, I urge whoever is capable to go to Makerere University and establish how many of the 1st year Medicine or Pharmacy or Law students went through UPE schools. A mass party should empower its members economically, intellectually and otherwise.
How many of the NRM MPs have the wherewithal to oppose the NRM chairman on any anti-people programme? How many NRM MPs have opposed the proliferation of districts, ministries or even the appointment of people implicated in corruption scandals to public offices? Wait a moment – you will hear that the proposed constitutional amendments have been passed into law by our MPs who in practice are Museveni’s Parliamentarians – thus the label MPs. We have A few days ago, we saw the appointment of a person that was implicated in the Chogm saga to a de facto number two position? How many sons and daughters of the peasants can ably access jobs in URA, NPA or how many of the sons of the peasants can head projects in ministry of finance? How many of the masses are able to make independent decisions when it comes to voting?
I know virtually all NRM voters practice what is called pocket-book voting as opposed to socio-tropic voting. Pocket-book voting is where the goodies or freebies one gets during the campaign period determine how and for whom they cast their vote. This is opposed to socio-tropic voting which is influenced by the issues raised by the candidates. This is not the case with the NRM.
I hear in the yellow book, there are 8 or 9 million. How many of the mass membership turned to vote the NRM during the February election? How come with evidence of pre-ticked ballot stuffing presented by Ssekikubo and Dr Besigye, the NRM got only 5million votes? By the way, my mother is also in the register of the “Mass Party”. How does the party account to her if when she was suffering from fibroids she couldn’t get treatment in Mulago. I surmise that NRM is a cadre party because only the party cadres benefit from being its members because they have access to state resources – thanks to the spoils system.
Vincent Nuwagaba
Vincent Nuwagaba is a human rights defender
vnuwagaba@gmail.com
Sunday, May 29, 2011
There was no election in 1980 - Museveni
FLASHBACK in The Monitor, Friday March 15-18, 1996
As peace talks went on between GEN Tito Okello Lutwa’s military Council/UNLA and Yoweri Museveni’s NRM/A in Nairobi 1985, following Milton Obote’s overthrow on July 27, JOHN GACHIE - Kenya Times Foreign correspondent took time off to interview Museveni. We return to that moment – about two months before NRA stormed kampala and handed power over to Museveni:
Kenya times: when you say you are not ambitious then what are you?
Museveni: we’ve got aims, we have aims. One of our aims is dignity; dignity for the African people I told you that I went to Mozambique in 1968. You cannot say that I wanted to be the president of Mozambique. But our Aim has always been dignity for the African people and dignity can mean a number of things.
One is independence: alright political independence that is;
Two, a decent level of living; economically the Africans must have all these things – decent life; they must have meals, they must have proteins, they must have carbohydrates, they must have good houses.
That’s what we mean by dignity of the African people. They must have a government that respects them. Like in Uganda you find the soldiers of the regime have been stripping women naked, raping them. That’s not dignity to the African people; that is indignity. So, that’s one of the things we are fighting for, the dignity of the African people. And as I have said, the dignity of the African people means a lot of things in economic terms, political terms, human rights, their democratic rights. That’s what we have been fighting for.
Now since the formation of the nrm or since you went into the bush in 1981, we have never had your political or ideological stand. It has never been clear, some have called you a Marxist others a socialist, what are you?
Museveni: I am a nationalist. As I have said, if you listened to what I said about the African people, you will find that it is linked to national consciousness. So our main stand in ideological terms is nationalism, patriotism – love for our country – Uganda and Africa in general. That is our line. About Marxism, I know what Marxism is all about, what capitalism is all about, what the different philosophers said at different times. We are aware of what is being talked about but as far as Uganda is concerned and as far as Africa is concerned, we don’t think that what Uganda needs is Marxism. We think what Uganda needs is development even on Capitalistic basis if it benefits our people because a programmes is like a suit, you go and measure yourself and see what suit fits you. You are not going to go and put on Museveni’s suit and say that you are dressing nicely. You go and have yourself measured, then they will make the suit which is equal to your size, in the waist, in the legs, in the chest. It seems to me that Museveni never knew that capitalism can generate growth but no development and it looks clear to me that from the word go, Museveni has never had a clear ideology. His politics is not ideologically –oriented – he has had no ideological orientation.
Well by then …
Museveni: the same with a political programme; in a country like Uganda, if you look at it, what is it? Mainly of peasants. They don’t have industries. These peasants are engaged in primitive form of Agriculture. Underdeveloped forms of Agriculture using a hand hoe. The population in Uganda is still small. I don’t agree with these people that Africa is overpopulated myself (and I agree with him: we have an increasing population but not overpopulated). I don’t subscribe to that view. Like in Uganda, the population is still small, it is only 15million people and Uganda is almost the size of Britain. UK is the same size as Uganda with a population of about 60m people.
In fact, Uganda is underpopulated. Therefore, the ideas of Marx as they were enunciated during the last century don’t fit in that kind of situation, because Marx was talking about as developed capitalist society with a big working class which didn’t own any property and who therefore had no interest in private property but wanted communal ownership of property because thay had lost their property already.
In fact, Marx said, “you have nothing to lose but your chains”. If you remember he said something like that but our people are owners. Everybody owns a small plot of land, some property somewhere and some cows, so the Uganda society is a society of small owners. So you see you are talking of two different societies. For instance, capitalistic Europe in the last century or even today and backward Uganda. Because Uganda is a backward country, it has got a lot of resources but are not yet developed. Then you talk about two different things.
You can’t bring what Marx was talking in the last century because these are small owners. Small owners are interested in improving what they own. They want their small properties to expand so they have an interest in ownership and in improving the quality of that ownership. (sadly, when he came, he divested the citizens of all that belonged to the state). That’s Uganda now. On the other hand, the European countries like Germany when Marx was writing about them, like Britain, they had millions of working people who had no property at all and who couldn’t hope to have property, you see. So, if you talk about communal ownership of wealth, there you can argue with him.
But here, we are talking about a different situation. My mother and my father have no interest in communizing wealth. They have got interest in improving their small property because they already have some property. When the situation comes when we have got a huge population of people who don’t have property, maybe the people will start arguing whether property should be communal or not (could this be the time when people want property to be communal? how many people are languishing without any property?) then the topic might be relevant but not now? – is it not surprising that you came when every Uganda had property and instead of developing industries to absorb the ever increasing population, now you see Ugandans without property, without jobs without anything. At least in the European countries you talked about, many people were workers although they were exploited by the capitalists? So are we capitalists? What are we? At least, I am sure we are not socialists nor Marxists.
Back to the question of capitalism or Marxism. You also know that capitalism as we know it toaday was started in the 19th century …. at least a polished and improved version.
Museveni: oh no. capitalism was started in the 15th century.
So, it would be fair to say that you are not opposed to Marxism. It is only that it is not appropriate to the present situation?
Museveni: it’s inappropriate to our present situation.
What is appropriate then, what kind of ideology or political sytem would fit the present situation?
Museveni: to answer the question of what is appropriate now, we should first answer the question of what are our problems, because you should answer questions. It’s easier. What is the problem of Africa today? The problem of Africa today is backwardness because when you are talking about capitalism or socialism, you are talking about developed societies. Both of them are developed you should have illusions about that.
They are advanced societies. Agriculture is advanced. Industries are advanced. Social services are advanced. But they are advanced in different ways. Tunaelelewana hapo Ndugu, tunaelewana? (do we concur here, brother). And if you want to measure the level of development there are certain indicators you can use. For instance, we use the number of doctors per number of people. I mean, how many persons per every available doctor? If you use that as criteria, if you go to UK maybe there are 520 persons per doctor. In Czechoslovakia maybe there are 580 persons or 540 and East Germany maybe 530 per every available doctor. You find that in these societies, there are very many doctors but if you go to Kenya, you find there may be 250,000 people per every available doctor, in Chad, the figure maybe 85,000 people per every available doctor. If you go to Tanzania which is supposed to be socialist and Kenya capitalist, you may find the figures almost the same or slightly higher but they are in the same category of developing countries while UK and Czechoslovakia are in the same category of advanced countries.
You can use income per capita, infant mortality rates or calories consumed per day per person to establish the level of development in any country. So, now if you use these tests, you will find that generally speaking, African countries are backward, whether they say, they are capitalists or socialists or whatever they say, they are backward. On the other hand West and East European countries are generally developed.
Yes, but then..,.
Museveni: Then the debate, you wait, the debate is now about which is a more efficient form of a developing country. Some say, capitalism is better because it gives people incentives to work and so forth and so on (how about exploitation? How about a combination of capitalism and unemployment?). These are some of the arguments they advance. The socialists say NO. Socialist policies are more efficient because of centralized planning and so on and so forth. But what are they arguing about? It’s like people in this hotel arguing that this suite is better than the other one but it is the same hotel. While someone in Kawangware, (laughing) is arguing which slum is better than the other with his friend (Ugandans are now arguing which thief, which mismanager and which dictator is better of all the dictators we have had?). Yes you can have your own argument there. So I am telling you that the problem of Africa is backwardness, because if you understood political economy, there are things we call for instance, productive forces. Productive forces, mean science, technology and managerial capability, you know Si unisaidie! Bwana (help me).
You know what productive forces mean: science plus technology plus managerial capability of that society. Now you find that, we can talk about productive forces of African countries being backward while those of the developed countries are advanced.
So what Africa lacks is development.
We are all agreed on that…
Museveni: the problem is backwardness and now to over come this backwardness for me, and this is what we have proposed time and time again, not only NRM, which came just yeaterday but even before when we were in FRONASA and the UPM during the elections – we were promising a mixed economy which would be the best strategy to follow to overcome this backwardness by mixed economy.
We mean you could use capitalistic techniques and socialist techniques wherever applicable. For instance, the Kenya Commercial Bank, who owns it? Is it not government-owned? It’s a nationalised industry and nationalisation was first used by the socialists. It is a socialist technique and why did the Kenya government, for instance, use that technique? They were right because that was the only solution.
Otherwise, if they hadn’t set up the Commercial Bank of Kenya, the only other people who had the capital were foreigners. Now if they had gone with those foreigners controlling the loaning system of the financial houses in the country, they would have served the interests of the foreigners. So it was clever for the government of Kenya to try and own commercial financial institutions, because once you own them, then you might use them to give a loan to someone who might do something for the country (did he forget that at a time UCB was sold), while if you don’t own them the foreign banks will not give you a loan if you want to establish a shoe-making company. If the shoe importing is done by foreign interests, they won’t allow it because of the control on the loaning policy.
On the other hand, like here in Kenya, the farms are owned by the private individuals. Now that is a capitalistic technique, because you are using private enterprise to run farms. So, for us we have always recommended that a mixed economy and approach, depending on the industry involved, may be the best way to overcome backwardness. If we attacked it cleverly you can be able within 15 -20 years, to overcome it.
To probably leave the question of ideology …would you…
Museveni: No, we cannot leave it. We should only leave it when you absolutely sure of our position, because you should understand it. So we are saying therefore, the main problem is that of underdevelopment, we should get it out clearly.
The main problem of the countries or Africa?
Museveni: Both, the main problem is the underdevelopment of the economy of the society because society is also underdeveloped and politics – because politics is also underdeveloped . Politics in Africa is very underdeveloped. That is why African governments are afraid of criticism and things like that – because they feel insecure.
Politically, we are underdeveloped. That’s why you find lack of democracy, because of insecurity. The regimes are insecure; they are afraid of people, afraid of different opinions and afraid of so many things at the same time. But if they were not afraid, then you can talk, like in England, you can go and talk and wear placards and nobody cares about you because you are not a threat to anybody.
Would you allow that thing say in Uganda?
Museveni: W-e-l-l, … I think eh… the problem in Uganda and in other African countries as far as the political question is concerned, although there are many questions involved, political questions, economic questions and many other things, the position of Uganda and other Africa countries as far as the political question is concerned is lack of understanding the political problems on the part of the leaders as well as on those whom they are leading.
So that, you find that, they are sometimes arguing about the wrong things. I have told you about the question of parties in Uganda which are based partly on religious grounds. Some are Catholics, some are Protestants. Now this is not a correct demarcation. So, I am not sure whether to allow these people to continue fighting and arguing as Catholics and Protestants. Will that help the demarcation? So, it is not easy to say, allow the freedom of this or that. Me, I think the main problem would be to educate the population about their real interests because sometimes they are pushing other people’s interests – and then the bad elements use their ignorance to push their own interests – using the population and making the people forget about their real interests.
Won’t you then be falling into the same trap that African leaders have fallen into time and time again, condescending; as it were leaders deciding, arrogating to themselves the right to decide who is a bad element or not. Won’t you be perpetuating a similar thing?
Museveni: Not for us. Not for us. Because for us we don’t arrogate ourselves if you say that there is a difference between Catholics and Protestsnts and that this difference is irreconcilable, we shall not agree with you. And it’s not arrogating ourselves the right to decide. We are not doing that because for us we ask ourselves: What is the difference between the Catholics and Protestants? They both need roads, clean water, social services and other amenities. If we tell them that these differences are artificial divisions and they tell us we have no right to tell them so, we shall tell them, well you are wrong and we are duty-bound to tell them they are wrong (likewise, those who tell M7 he is wrong in the way he comports himself and runs government are duty-bound to tell him so).
How do you go about telling them that they are wrong?
Museveni: Well, we educate them about their real interests, what’s good for all of us. This can be argued openly …. You can also not confuse weak leadership with democracy or confusion with democracy. You cannot tell me that such fellows fighting on the basis of religion or tribal grounds are encouraging democracy. I don’t think so. No, because the best way to test this out: why this woman or man is fighting with the other one and where they clash fundamentally. If you don’t know why they clash, then you are wrong.
Back to Uganda, now, you contested the 1980 elections but never won a seat yourself?
Museveni: It was rigged, there was no election, there was no election. My constituency was stretching from the Tnzanian border up to Lake George. That is a distance of about 100 miles. You see for yourself on the map. You see they were demarcating the constituency in such a way that they would ensure that the people they didn’t want didn’t win the elections. That was problem number one. We call this in English gerrymandering the constituency, manipulating the constituency so that you exclude the people you don’t want to be elected.
We had told them that the constituency boundaries should follow administrative boundaries as much as possible because because administrative boundaries exist.
You know in Uganda we have what we call counties and sub counties. Now, a constituency is supposed to have something like 100,000 people. Some had more like 160,000; others had less like 850,000 to 95,000 people. For us, our movement, the idea was that why tamper with these administrative boundaries? Why not have a constituency for Parliamentary elections? At the same time it is the county for administrative purposes and at the same time an economic unit. A development unit because you can use it for economic planning.
For them, they were not interested in this. They were interested in finding constituencies where they didn’t like the man and remove it. Secondly, they were actually removing votes, you know the votes were in four ballot boxes, so that, because there were four parties and if they shook the box of their man and found he didn’t have many votes they would then empty the other boxes.
For us we wanted one ballot box and one ballot paper with all the names of the candidates and the people whould make their choice on one ballot paper and put it in one ballot box with all of us looking – but they wanted four boxes and four ballot papers. So, there was no election, there were no elections at all.
How do you react to accusations that you are not Ugandan , that you come from Rwanda and that you should leave Ugandans to sort their political problems?
Museveni: Okay, suppose I was a Rwandese by origin, just for the sake of argument and I have lived in Uganda for many years. Why shouldn’t I take part in the politics of Uganda? …after somebody stayed in Uganda for more than seven years as an African from a neighbouring country, he can apply to be a citizen of Uganda. Even from that point of view – that so and so is not a Ugandan - he is a Rwandese, it is rubbish as far as I am concerned. Indians here. If Indians can be Kenyan, or Ugandan why shouldn’t an African from Kenya or Rwanda be a citizen of Uganda for that matter – if he has lived in Uganda for twenty or thirty years if he wants to stay there, why shouldn’t he have the same rights?
This is rubboish…brother, from these fellows who have failed to run Africa, they are always looking for excuses, scapegoats you know like Hitler, who when he failed to run germany he started blaming the Jews and said the problem of Germany was Jews. …this is all rubbish.
But anyway, to come to the question, of whether I am a Ugandan or not I am definitely a Ugandan by birth.
Point number two, even if I had come from Rwanda, I would still be proud as I am entitled as I am today, to fight for justice in Uganda – because that’s where I would be living. (was he really fighting for justice; then where is it?). This is rubbish wajinga, wajinga kabisa , hawa watu shenzitu. (They are stupid, stupid, foolish, foolish).
These are African leaders who are politically bankrupt, they use what we call in philosophy obscurantism, to obscure issues using diversionary tactics. It’s like saying although, I am a thief, the none accusing me is a Munyankole. To me Africans are a wonderful people. I am not proud of thse boundaries they were put there by colonialists, by Bismarck, hawa watu ni wajinga kabisa shenzi tu . instead of taking advantage of the common links like the Bantu people near the lake, you see I can understand almost all these people without so much problem from Mt Elgon. These Samia people, Baluhya , right up to Rwanda and even thse nyerere people across the lake in Tanzania, why can’t these people take advantage of thse common linguistic heritage like other countries?
Museveni’s politics is Pan Africanism for political and economic reasons. These people are just incredible, you see there a Banyankole saying that “the hairstyle is made according to the size and shape of the head”.
The media impression is that you are the stumbling block to the Uganda peace agreement by resisting disarmament. What have you to say to these allegations?
Museveni: What is disarmament? It’s an insult to our people. They are talking about bringing foreign forces, Uganda is not a colony. The army is the core of the government, because it can protect and guarantee the government. How can a government by itself propose that it be disarmed? Me, I wouldn’t even whisper about it.
What we need is a small training force. Why do they have so much faith in foreign armies? Obote had British , Korean, Sierra Leonean , Australian, Tanzanian and Egyptian military trainers and even the North Koreans were actually fighting and sisi tunawapondaponda ( and we still crushed them regardless).
It is not necessary, not advisable to have foreign troops or do they want security from foreign soldiers, worried about their own safety? Why should a foreign power play a colonial role or a mercenary role in Uganda? We propsed aformation of a joint force made up about 4000 soldiers from NRA and UNLA and then some observers from some Commonwealth countries to see the integration and formation of a new army.
I cannot fail to get 15,000 soldiers to guard me and I don’t pay them like the present case in Kampala. All we give them is food rations. Nothing more because they believe in the cause of the fight.
But where do you get the money from to afford to buy them food?
Museveni: We get money by capturing it from the regime. We confiscate it; not stealing and we issue receipts for it and we shall account for it to the people of Uganda at a later date, but not to the regime in Kampala.
You are also accused of being a tribalist. That the Movement (NRM) – and especially the people attending the peace talks – are mainly Banyankole and only three Baganda who are alleged to be rejects by their own people?
You see, brother, these people are not serious. First, I am not a Ugandan. Then I am a tribalist, why all these contradictions? I have not cared to select the tribe. All I care is that someone is doing a job. You see brother, brother, in the NRA, we don’t follow tribes, because if we did, it would mean that in theatre, a Kikuyu is the doctor, a Kalenjin is a nurse and the Kamba is a theatre technician. It would be ridiculous.
If you bring tribalism tunakupondaponda (we crush you) until you are not seen and that is why we are defeating these bastards because we look for quality. We have Banyankole, Basoga, Bakiga, Banyoro and Baganda.
What would make the two agree on peaceful solution to Ugandan problems?
Museveni: there are only three positive elements in Uganda. One, our Movement (NRM), the political parties (UPC and DP), if they can only agree to come together and the young soldiers and officers of the UNLA, who staged the coup which was derailed and handed over to their bosses who were never involved in it.
What about Tito Okello and Basilio Okello? Are you saying that they were not involved in the coup against Obote?
Museveni: Basilio Okello and Tito Okello had nothing to do with the coup. In fact, Tito Okello almost fled to Sudan and the fellow who announced the coup was certainly Okello Koro – if you heard the first broadcast of the coup. In fact he defected to our side towards the end of September. He was either a Second Lt. or a full Lieutenant. The Okellos had nothing to do with the coup. I can tell you because I am an authority in military affairs in Uganda. The main motive of the coup was to end the war with NRA not with ex-Amin soldiers. Then these opportunists came in and used the power to try and safeguard their positions.
But there are other fighting groups in Uganda like the UNRF, FUNA and FEDEMU who are asking for a complete disarmament and questioning your Movement’s claim to a special treatment. What have you to say to this, aren’t you afraid?
Museveni: No, not at ll, you see brother I will tell you about another Banyankole saying. One day, an old woman urinated on one of these small ants. What do you call them in English…black ants? Anyway, whatever they are called, and the ant said to the old woman: “My friend I have survived many storms, and I am not going to be intimidated by you”
As peace talks went on between GEN Tito Okello Lutwa’s military Council/UNLA and Yoweri Museveni’s NRM/A in Nairobi 1985, following Milton Obote’s overthrow on July 27, JOHN GACHIE - Kenya Times Foreign correspondent took time off to interview Museveni. We return to that moment – about two months before NRA stormed kampala and handed power over to Museveni:
Kenya times: when you say you are not ambitious then what are you?
Museveni: we’ve got aims, we have aims. One of our aims is dignity; dignity for the African people I told you that I went to Mozambique in 1968. You cannot say that I wanted to be the president of Mozambique. But our Aim has always been dignity for the African people and dignity can mean a number of things.
One is independence: alright political independence that is;
Two, a decent level of living; economically the Africans must have all these things – decent life; they must have meals, they must have proteins, they must have carbohydrates, they must have good houses.
That’s what we mean by dignity of the African people. They must have a government that respects them. Like in Uganda you find the soldiers of the regime have been stripping women naked, raping them. That’s not dignity to the African people; that is indignity. So, that’s one of the things we are fighting for, the dignity of the African people. And as I have said, the dignity of the African people means a lot of things in economic terms, political terms, human rights, their democratic rights. That’s what we have been fighting for.
Now since the formation of the nrm or since you went into the bush in 1981, we have never had your political or ideological stand. It has never been clear, some have called you a Marxist others a socialist, what are you?
Museveni: I am a nationalist. As I have said, if you listened to what I said about the African people, you will find that it is linked to national consciousness. So our main stand in ideological terms is nationalism, patriotism – love for our country – Uganda and Africa in general. That is our line. About Marxism, I know what Marxism is all about, what capitalism is all about, what the different philosophers said at different times. We are aware of what is being talked about but as far as Uganda is concerned and as far as Africa is concerned, we don’t think that what Uganda needs is Marxism. We think what Uganda needs is development even on Capitalistic basis if it benefits our people because a programmes is like a suit, you go and measure yourself and see what suit fits you. You are not going to go and put on Museveni’s suit and say that you are dressing nicely. You go and have yourself measured, then they will make the suit which is equal to your size, in the waist, in the legs, in the chest. It seems to me that Museveni never knew that capitalism can generate growth but no development and it looks clear to me that from the word go, Museveni has never had a clear ideology. His politics is not ideologically –oriented – he has had no ideological orientation.
Well by then …
Museveni: the same with a political programme; in a country like Uganda, if you look at it, what is it? Mainly of peasants. They don’t have industries. These peasants are engaged in primitive form of Agriculture. Underdeveloped forms of Agriculture using a hand hoe. The population in Uganda is still small. I don’t agree with these people that Africa is overpopulated myself (and I agree with him: we have an increasing population but not overpopulated). I don’t subscribe to that view. Like in Uganda, the population is still small, it is only 15million people and Uganda is almost the size of Britain. UK is the same size as Uganda with a population of about 60m people.
In fact, Uganda is underpopulated. Therefore, the ideas of Marx as they were enunciated during the last century don’t fit in that kind of situation, because Marx was talking about as developed capitalist society with a big working class which didn’t own any property and who therefore had no interest in private property but wanted communal ownership of property because thay had lost their property already.
In fact, Marx said, “you have nothing to lose but your chains”. If you remember he said something like that but our people are owners. Everybody owns a small plot of land, some property somewhere and some cows, so the Uganda society is a society of small owners. So you see you are talking of two different societies. For instance, capitalistic Europe in the last century or even today and backward Uganda. Because Uganda is a backward country, it has got a lot of resources but are not yet developed. Then you talk about two different things.
You can’t bring what Marx was talking in the last century because these are small owners. Small owners are interested in improving what they own. They want their small properties to expand so they have an interest in ownership and in improving the quality of that ownership. (sadly, when he came, he divested the citizens of all that belonged to the state). That’s Uganda now. On the other hand, the European countries like Germany when Marx was writing about them, like Britain, they had millions of working people who had no property at all and who couldn’t hope to have property, you see. So, if you talk about communal ownership of wealth, there you can argue with him.
But here, we are talking about a different situation. My mother and my father have no interest in communizing wealth. They have got interest in improving their small property because they already have some property. When the situation comes when we have got a huge population of people who don’t have property, maybe the people will start arguing whether property should be communal or not (could this be the time when people want property to be communal? how many people are languishing without any property?) then the topic might be relevant but not now? – is it not surprising that you came when every Uganda had property and instead of developing industries to absorb the ever increasing population, now you see Ugandans without property, without jobs without anything. At least in the European countries you talked about, many people were workers although they were exploited by the capitalists? So are we capitalists? What are we? At least, I am sure we are not socialists nor Marxists.
Back to the question of capitalism or Marxism. You also know that capitalism as we know it toaday was started in the 19th century …. at least a polished and improved version.
Museveni: oh no. capitalism was started in the 15th century.
So, it would be fair to say that you are not opposed to Marxism. It is only that it is not appropriate to the present situation?
Museveni: it’s inappropriate to our present situation.
What is appropriate then, what kind of ideology or political sytem would fit the present situation?
Museveni: to answer the question of what is appropriate now, we should first answer the question of what are our problems, because you should answer questions. It’s easier. What is the problem of Africa today? The problem of Africa today is backwardness because when you are talking about capitalism or socialism, you are talking about developed societies. Both of them are developed you should have illusions about that.
They are advanced societies. Agriculture is advanced. Industries are advanced. Social services are advanced. But they are advanced in different ways. Tunaelelewana hapo Ndugu, tunaelewana? (do we concur here, brother). And if you want to measure the level of development there are certain indicators you can use. For instance, we use the number of doctors per number of people. I mean, how many persons per every available doctor? If you use that as criteria, if you go to UK maybe there are 520 persons per doctor. In Czechoslovakia maybe there are 580 persons or 540 and East Germany maybe 530 per every available doctor. You find that in these societies, there are very many doctors but if you go to Kenya, you find there may be 250,000 people per every available doctor, in Chad, the figure maybe 85,000 people per every available doctor. If you go to Tanzania which is supposed to be socialist and Kenya capitalist, you may find the figures almost the same or slightly higher but they are in the same category of developing countries while UK and Czechoslovakia are in the same category of advanced countries.
You can use income per capita, infant mortality rates or calories consumed per day per person to establish the level of development in any country. So, now if you use these tests, you will find that generally speaking, African countries are backward, whether they say, they are capitalists or socialists or whatever they say, they are backward. On the other hand West and East European countries are generally developed.
Yes, but then..,.
Museveni: Then the debate, you wait, the debate is now about which is a more efficient form of a developing country. Some say, capitalism is better because it gives people incentives to work and so forth and so on (how about exploitation? How about a combination of capitalism and unemployment?). These are some of the arguments they advance. The socialists say NO. Socialist policies are more efficient because of centralized planning and so on and so forth. But what are they arguing about? It’s like people in this hotel arguing that this suite is better than the other one but it is the same hotel. While someone in Kawangware, (laughing) is arguing which slum is better than the other with his friend (Ugandans are now arguing which thief, which mismanager and which dictator is better of all the dictators we have had?). Yes you can have your own argument there. So I am telling you that the problem of Africa is backwardness, because if you understood political economy, there are things we call for instance, productive forces. Productive forces, mean science, technology and managerial capability, you know Si unisaidie! Bwana (help me).
You know what productive forces mean: science plus technology plus managerial capability of that society. Now you find that, we can talk about productive forces of African countries being backward while those of the developed countries are advanced.
So what Africa lacks is development.
We are all agreed on that…
Museveni: the problem is backwardness and now to over come this backwardness for me, and this is what we have proposed time and time again, not only NRM, which came just yeaterday but even before when we were in FRONASA and the UPM during the elections – we were promising a mixed economy which would be the best strategy to follow to overcome this backwardness by mixed economy.
We mean you could use capitalistic techniques and socialist techniques wherever applicable. For instance, the Kenya Commercial Bank, who owns it? Is it not government-owned? It’s a nationalised industry and nationalisation was first used by the socialists. It is a socialist technique and why did the Kenya government, for instance, use that technique? They were right because that was the only solution.
Otherwise, if they hadn’t set up the Commercial Bank of Kenya, the only other people who had the capital were foreigners. Now if they had gone with those foreigners controlling the loaning system of the financial houses in the country, they would have served the interests of the foreigners. So it was clever for the government of Kenya to try and own commercial financial institutions, because once you own them, then you might use them to give a loan to someone who might do something for the country (did he forget that at a time UCB was sold), while if you don’t own them the foreign banks will not give you a loan if you want to establish a shoe-making company. If the shoe importing is done by foreign interests, they won’t allow it because of the control on the loaning policy.
On the other hand, like here in Kenya, the farms are owned by the private individuals. Now that is a capitalistic technique, because you are using private enterprise to run farms. So, for us we have always recommended that a mixed economy and approach, depending on the industry involved, may be the best way to overcome backwardness. If we attacked it cleverly you can be able within 15 -20 years, to overcome it.
To probably leave the question of ideology …would you…
Museveni: No, we cannot leave it. We should only leave it when you absolutely sure of our position, because you should understand it. So we are saying therefore, the main problem is that of underdevelopment, we should get it out clearly.
The main problem of the countries or Africa?
Museveni: Both, the main problem is the underdevelopment of the economy of the society because society is also underdeveloped and politics – because politics is also underdeveloped . Politics in Africa is very underdeveloped. That is why African governments are afraid of criticism and things like that – because they feel insecure.
Politically, we are underdeveloped. That’s why you find lack of democracy, because of insecurity. The regimes are insecure; they are afraid of people, afraid of different opinions and afraid of so many things at the same time. But if they were not afraid, then you can talk, like in England, you can go and talk and wear placards and nobody cares about you because you are not a threat to anybody.
Would you allow that thing say in Uganda?
Museveni: W-e-l-l, … I think eh… the problem in Uganda and in other African countries as far as the political question is concerned, although there are many questions involved, political questions, economic questions and many other things, the position of Uganda and other Africa countries as far as the political question is concerned is lack of understanding the political problems on the part of the leaders as well as on those whom they are leading.
So that, you find that, they are sometimes arguing about the wrong things. I have told you about the question of parties in Uganda which are based partly on religious grounds. Some are Catholics, some are Protestants. Now this is not a correct demarcation. So, I am not sure whether to allow these people to continue fighting and arguing as Catholics and Protestants. Will that help the demarcation? So, it is not easy to say, allow the freedom of this or that. Me, I think the main problem would be to educate the population about their real interests because sometimes they are pushing other people’s interests – and then the bad elements use their ignorance to push their own interests – using the population and making the people forget about their real interests.
Won’t you then be falling into the same trap that African leaders have fallen into time and time again, condescending; as it were leaders deciding, arrogating to themselves the right to decide who is a bad element or not. Won’t you be perpetuating a similar thing?
Museveni: Not for us. Not for us. Because for us we don’t arrogate ourselves if you say that there is a difference between Catholics and Protestsnts and that this difference is irreconcilable, we shall not agree with you. And it’s not arrogating ourselves the right to decide. We are not doing that because for us we ask ourselves: What is the difference between the Catholics and Protestants? They both need roads, clean water, social services and other amenities. If we tell them that these differences are artificial divisions and they tell us we have no right to tell them so, we shall tell them, well you are wrong and we are duty-bound to tell them they are wrong (likewise, those who tell M7 he is wrong in the way he comports himself and runs government are duty-bound to tell him so).
How do you go about telling them that they are wrong?
Museveni: Well, we educate them about their real interests, what’s good for all of us. This can be argued openly …. You can also not confuse weak leadership with democracy or confusion with democracy. You cannot tell me that such fellows fighting on the basis of religion or tribal grounds are encouraging democracy. I don’t think so. No, because the best way to test this out: why this woman or man is fighting with the other one and where they clash fundamentally. If you don’t know why they clash, then you are wrong.
Back to Uganda, now, you contested the 1980 elections but never won a seat yourself?
Museveni: It was rigged, there was no election, there was no election. My constituency was stretching from the Tnzanian border up to Lake George. That is a distance of about 100 miles. You see for yourself on the map. You see they were demarcating the constituency in such a way that they would ensure that the people they didn’t want didn’t win the elections. That was problem number one. We call this in English gerrymandering the constituency, manipulating the constituency so that you exclude the people you don’t want to be elected.
We had told them that the constituency boundaries should follow administrative boundaries as much as possible because because administrative boundaries exist.
You know in Uganda we have what we call counties and sub counties. Now, a constituency is supposed to have something like 100,000 people. Some had more like 160,000; others had less like 850,000 to 95,000 people. For us, our movement, the idea was that why tamper with these administrative boundaries? Why not have a constituency for Parliamentary elections? At the same time it is the county for administrative purposes and at the same time an economic unit. A development unit because you can use it for economic planning.
For them, they were not interested in this. They were interested in finding constituencies where they didn’t like the man and remove it. Secondly, they were actually removing votes, you know the votes were in four ballot boxes, so that, because there were four parties and if they shook the box of their man and found he didn’t have many votes they would then empty the other boxes.
For us we wanted one ballot box and one ballot paper with all the names of the candidates and the people whould make their choice on one ballot paper and put it in one ballot box with all of us looking – but they wanted four boxes and four ballot papers. So, there was no election, there were no elections at all.
How do you react to accusations that you are not Ugandan , that you come from Rwanda and that you should leave Ugandans to sort their political problems?
Museveni: Okay, suppose I was a Rwandese by origin, just for the sake of argument and I have lived in Uganda for many years. Why shouldn’t I take part in the politics of Uganda? …after somebody stayed in Uganda for more than seven years as an African from a neighbouring country, he can apply to be a citizen of Uganda. Even from that point of view – that so and so is not a Ugandan - he is a Rwandese, it is rubbish as far as I am concerned. Indians here. If Indians can be Kenyan, or Ugandan why shouldn’t an African from Kenya or Rwanda be a citizen of Uganda for that matter – if he has lived in Uganda for twenty or thirty years if he wants to stay there, why shouldn’t he have the same rights?
This is rubboish…brother, from these fellows who have failed to run Africa, they are always looking for excuses, scapegoats you know like Hitler, who when he failed to run germany he started blaming the Jews and said the problem of Germany was Jews. …this is all rubbish.
But anyway, to come to the question, of whether I am a Ugandan or not I am definitely a Ugandan by birth.
Point number two, even if I had come from Rwanda, I would still be proud as I am entitled as I am today, to fight for justice in Uganda – because that’s where I would be living. (was he really fighting for justice; then where is it?). This is rubbish wajinga, wajinga kabisa , hawa watu shenzitu. (They are stupid, stupid, foolish, foolish).
These are African leaders who are politically bankrupt, they use what we call in philosophy obscurantism, to obscure issues using diversionary tactics. It’s like saying although, I am a thief, the none accusing me is a Munyankole. To me Africans are a wonderful people. I am not proud of thse boundaries they were put there by colonialists, by Bismarck, hawa watu ni wajinga kabisa shenzi tu . instead of taking advantage of the common links like the Bantu people near the lake, you see I can understand almost all these people without so much problem from Mt Elgon. These Samia people, Baluhya , right up to Rwanda and even thse nyerere people across the lake in Tanzania, why can’t these people take advantage of thse common linguistic heritage like other countries?
Museveni’s politics is Pan Africanism for political and economic reasons. These people are just incredible, you see there a Banyankole saying that “the hairstyle is made according to the size and shape of the head”.
The media impression is that you are the stumbling block to the Uganda peace agreement by resisting disarmament. What have you to say to these allegations?
Museveni: What is disarmament? It’s an insult to our people. They are talking about bringing foreign forces, Uganda is not a colony. The army is the core of the government, because it can protect and guarantee the government. How can a government by itself propose that it be disarmed? Me, I wouldn’t even whisper about it.
What we need is a small training force. Why do they have so much faith in foreign armies? Obote had British , Korean, Sierra Leonean , Australian, Tanzanian and Egyptian military trainers and even the North Koreans were actually fighting and sisi tunawapondaponda ( and we still crushed them regardless).
It is not necessary, not advisable to have foreign troops or do they want security from foreign soldiers, worried about their own safety? Why should a foreign power play a colonial role or a mercenary role in Uganda? We propsed aformation of a joint force made up about 4000 soldiers from NRA and UNLA and then some observers from some Commonwealth countries to see the integration and formation of a new army.
I cannot fail to get 15,000 soldiers to guard me and I don’t pay them like the present case in Kampala. All we give them is food rations. Nothing more because they believe in the cause of the fight.
But where do you get the money from to afford to buy them food?
Museveni: We get money by capturing it from the regime. We confiscate it; not stealing and we issue receipts for it and we shall account for it to the people of Uganda at a later date, but not to the regime in Kampala.
You are also accused of being a tribalist. That the Movement (NRM) – and especially the people attending the peace talks – are mainly Banyankole and only three Baganda who are alleged to be rejects by their own people?
You see, brother, these people are not serious. First, I am not a Ugandan. Then I am a tribalist, why all these contradictions? I have not cared to select the tribe. All I care is that someone is doing a job. You see brother, brother, in the NRA, we don’t follow tribes, because if we did, it would mean that in theatre, a Kikuyu is the doctor, a Kalenjin is a nurse and the Kamba is a theatre technician. It would be ridiculous.
If you bring tribalism tunakupondaponda (we crush you) until you are not seen and that is why we are defeating these bastards because we look for quality. We have Banyankole, Basoga, Bakiga, Banyoro and Baganda.
What would make the two agree on peaceful solution to Ugandan problems?
Museveni: there are only three positive elements in Uganda. One, our Movement (NRM), the political parties (UPC and DP), if they can only agree to come together and the young soldiers and officers of the UNLA, who staged the coup which was derailed and handed over to their bosses who were never involved in it.
What about Tito Okello and Basilio Okello? Are you saying that they were not involved in the coup against Obote?
Museveni: Basilio Okello and Tito Okello had nothing to do with the coup. In fact, Tito Okello almost fled to Sudan and the fellow who announced the coup was certainly Okello Koro – if you heard the first broadcast of the coup. In fact he defected to our side towards the end of September. He was either a Second Lt. or a full Lieutenant. The Okellos had nothing to do with the coup. I can tell you because I am an authority in military affairs in Uganda. The main motive of the coup was to end the war with NRA not with ex-Amin soldiers. Then these opportunists came in and used the power to try and safeguard their positions.
But there are other fighting groups in Uganda like the UNRF, FUNA and FEDEMU who are asking for a complete disarmament and questioning your Movement’s claim to a special treatment. What have you to say to this, aren’t you afraid?
Museveni: No, not at ll, you see brother I will tell you about another Banyankole saying. One day, an old woman urinated on one of these small ants. What do you call them in English…black ants? Anyway, whatever they are called, and the ant said to the old woman: “My friend I have survived many storms, and I am not going to be intimidated by you”
Here is how to prevent people’s revolutions
February 23, 2011 by: Peter Nyanzi, Editor- Supplements in Monitor blogs
In, “Why Besigye will not lead a people’s revolution,” (Daily Monitor, February 22), Mr Nicholas Sengooba wondered if, now that he has lost the elections once again, Dr Kizza Besigye can lead a popular revolution against the government.
According to Sengooba, if he ever tried, Besigye and those in his kin would risk ending up in the predicament of being indicted by the International Criminal Court on charges of genocide or crimes against humanity.
Many people, even in the government, actually share the view that the opposition in Uganda is too weak to lead a successful revolution.
Unfortunately, they seem to be totally oblivious of the fact that people’s revolutions do not necessarily require a strong leader to take place. Globally, people’s revolutions have over the years emerged out of people’s frustration with the status quo.
For example, the demonstrations in the Arab World have been precipitated by high unemployment rates, high food prices, corruption, disrespect for human rights, poor living conditions and a general feeling of dissatisfaction due to decades of repression and misrule.
In Tunisia, the revolution was actually sparked by a street vendor who set himself on fire on December 17 last year in protest against the confiscation of his goods and harassment by the authorities.
All of a sudden, the anger and disillusionment of the masses after years of neglect erupted like a volcano.
What role did ‘a strong opposition’ have to play in the revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt and currently Libya? What we need to appreciate is the fact that people’s revolutions arise from the hearts and spirits of the masses.
Regardless of whether there are charismatic leaders to lead them or not, people’s pent up frustrations will eventually erupt at an unexpected time.
In many developing countries, the governments put all the effort in weakening the opposition, equipping the security forces and feathering the nests of a few cronies as a way of consolidating power.
What they do not know is that in the modern era, all these are of no consequence when it comes to political stability. Only good governance is the ultimate safeguard against popular unrest.
According to the United Nations, good governance is of paramount importance to national stability. Where there is good governance, State and public institutions are accountable, effective, efficient and independent.
Without good governance, it is impossible to create conditions that lead to effective social services, economic growth, poverty reduction, food security and eventually sustainable development.
To prevent the conditions that lead to popular revolutions, governments must ensure that the views of all vulnerable groups – especially women, the youth and the poor – are heard and considered because they will be the ones most negatively affected if good governance is not achieved.
Governments must ensure that all rule originates from the will of the people, is participatory, is consensus- oriented, is accountable, is transparent, is responsive to people’s concerns and needs, and follows constitutionalism and the rule of law.
Governments must do everything to ensure that people’s civic freedoms and fundamental human rights are protected, that they show political will to fight corruption in public office, ensure equality before the law for all and that impunity is not tolerated at whatever level.
Finally, it is of paramount importance that governments appreciate the fact that a society’s well being depends on ensuring that all its members feel that they have a stake in it and do not habour feelings of being excluded from the mainstream of society.
This requires that all groups get reasonable access to essential social services and opportunities to improve or maintain their livelihoods.
Filed under: Others
Comments (3)
Comments
3 Responses to “Here is how to prevent people’s revolutions”
1.
wodgot says:
March 8, 2011 at 9:19 am
These are some of the tested ways one can use to prevent people’s revolution;
1.The army has to belong to the sitting President
2.Most of the members of the military council should be somehow related to the current President.
3.A machine that produces similar ballot papers has to be secretly bought and installed somewhere by the most trusted person to the sitting President and that person should be incharge of national security.
4.Heavily armed soldiers belonging to the sitting President should be deployed to all the polling stations.
**
This man voted for himself by stuffing preticked votes in most of the ballot boxes. .
2.
hannie says:
March 8, 2011 at 7:38 am
I will answer you Mr. Nyanzi!!
Elections mean nothing to ordinary Ugandans because they get empty promises out of the elections. Really Mr. Nyanzi what has changed since the first NRM elections? I did my min research when I took a small sample of my relatives who informed me that they are not interested in voting. When I asked why? The answer was whether we vote or not M7 ajja kuyitamu kubanga akalulu aja kaba. So in the minds of many Ugandans M7 is not there because he was voted, but becasue he riged the election. So why should people waste their precious time and stand in long queues for a meaningless vote?
3.
Peter Nyanzi, Editor- Supplements says:
February 24, 2011 at 2:33 am
Hi Algy,
Thanks for the feedback. But this recent turnout was the lowest ever in the four general elections that have been held since 1996. So given that most of the 12 reasons are a constant, your reason number 10, is the most realistic explanation. So the question for which we need an answer is, why don’t people care to vote anymore?
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In, “Why Besigye will not lead a people’s revolution,” (Daily Monitor, February 22), Mr Nicholas Sengooba wondered if, now that he has lost the elections once again, Dr Kizza Besigye can lead a popular revolution against the government.
According to Sengooba, if he ever tried, Besigye and those in his kin would risk ending up in the predicament of being indicted by the International Criminal Court on charges of genocide or crimes against humanity.
Many people, even in the government, actually share the view that the opposition in Uganda is too weak to lead a successful revolution.
Unfortunately, they seem to be totally oblivious of the fact that people’s revolutions do not necessarily require a strong leader to take place. Globally, people’s revolutions have over the years emerged out of people’s frustration with the status quo.
For example, the demonstrations in the Arab World have been precipitated by high unemployment rates, high food prices, corruption, disrespect for human rights, poor living conditions and a general feeling of dissatisfaction due to decades of repression and misrule.
In Tunisia, the revolution was actually sparked by a street vendor who set himself on fire on December 17 last year in protest against the confiscation of his goods and harassment by the authorities.
All of a sudden, the anger and disillusionment of the masses after years of neglect erupted like a volcano.
What role did ‘a strong opposition’ have to play in the revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt and currently Libya? What we need to appreciate is the fact that people’s revolutions arise from the hearts and spirits of the masses.
Regardless of whether there are charismatic leaders to lead them or not, people’s pent up frustrations will eventually erupt at an unexpected time.
In many developing countries, the governments put all the effort in weakening the opposition, equipping the security forces and feathering the nests of a few cronies as a way of consolidating power.
What they do not know is that in the modern era, all these are of no consequence when it comes to political stability. Only good governance is the ultimate safeguard against popular unrest.
According to the United Nations, good governance is of paramount importance to national stability. Where there is good governance, State and public institutions are accountable, effective, efficient and independent.
Without good governance, it is impossible to create conditions that lead to effective social services, economic growth, poverty reduction, food security and eventually sustainable development.
To prevent the conditions that lead to popular revolutions, governments must ensure that the views of all vulnerable groups – especially women, the youth and the poor – are heard and considered because they will be the ones most negatively affected if good governance is not achieved.
Governments must ensure that all rule originates from the will of the people, is participatory, is consensus- oriented, is accountable, is transparent, is responsive to people’s concerns and needs, and follows constitutionalism and the rule of law.
Governments must do everything to ensure that people’s civic freedoms and fundamental human rights are protected, that they show political will to fight corruption in public office, ensure equality before the law for all and that impunity is not tolerated at whatever level.
Finally, it is of paramount importance that governments appreciate the fact that a society’s well being depends on ensuring that all its members feel that they have a stake in it and do not habour feelings of being excluded from the mainstream of society.
This requires that all groups get reasonable access to essential social services and opportunities to improve or maintain their livelihoods.
Filed under: Others
Comments (3)
Comments
3 Responses to “Here is how to prevent people’s revolutions”
1.
wodgot says:
March 8, 2011 at 9:19 am
These are some of the tested ways one can use to prevent people’s revolution;
1.The army has to belong to the sitting President
2.Most of the members of the military council should be somehow related to the current President.
3.A machine that produces similar ballot papers has to be secretly bought and installed somewhere by the most trusted person to the sitting President and that person should be incharge of national security.
4.Heavily armed soldiers belonging to the sitting President should be deployed to all the polling stations.
**
This man voted for himself by stuffing preticked votes in most of the ballot boxes. .
2.
hannie says:
March 8, 2011 at 7:38 am
I will answer you Mr. Nyanzi!!
Elections mean nothing to ordinary Ugandans because they get empty promises out of the elections. Really Mr. Nyanzi what has changed since the first NRM elections? I did my min research when I took a small sample of my relatives who informed me that they are not interested in voting. When I asked why? The answer was whether we vote or not M7 ajja kuyitamu kubanga akalulu aja kaba. So in the minds of many Ugandans M7 is not there because he was voted, but becasue he riged the election. So why should people waste their precious time and stand in long queues for a meaningless vote?
3.
Peter Nyanzi, Editor- Supplements says:
February 24, 2011 at 2:33 am
Hi Algy,
Thanks for the feedback. But this recent turnout was the lowest ever in the four general elections that have been held since 1996. So given that most of the 12 reasons are a constant, your reason number 10, is the most realistic explanation. So the question for which we need an answer is, why don’t people care to vote anymore?
Leave a Reply
Click here to cancel reply.
Name (required)
Mail (will not be published) (required)
Website
It is supporters not critics who ruin governments
By George Kanyeihamba
Sunday Monitor, May 29 2011
In search of literary treasures, I visit many places of interest. In one of them I came across four sets of three words which every person should learn and memorise. The first trio predict that once three things in life have gone, they never come back and they are Time, Words and Opportunity.
The second trio recites that three things in life can destroy a man or a woman and these are Drugs, Pride and Anger. The third trio confirms that three things in life are never certain and they include Dreams, Success and Fortune.
Lastly, the fourth trio is that three things make a man or woman and these are Hardwork, Sincerity and Commitment. The fifth trio together constitute the icing on the cake of life and are Personality, Belief and Integrity.
Political leaders and their supporters whether of government or opposition parties who do not humbly believe in or respect the majority or all of the trios of the three words aforementioned will soon or later be defeated or ruined regardless of status, wealth, power or style.
Following the recent general elections in which one political party, by fair or other means, gained majority vote support of the Uganda population, no one could have thought that even before new members of Parliament had been sworn in, Opposition parties in general and Dr Kizza Besigye in particular would appear to have more support and certainly appear more attractive and popular both nationally and internationally than those who had jubilated at his and the opposition’s poor showing in the general elections.
The former British Prime Minister, the late Harold Wilson who was loved and disliked equally at the same time by the various sections of the British public once described a week in politics as a lifetime.
It may also be recalled that a sitting Canadian Prime Minister with a comfortable parliamentary majority had parliament prorogued and called a general election. Her main opponent was a liberal party leader who had a speaking impediment caused by an illness. During the election campaign the Prime Minister mocked that opposition leader and called upon Canadians not to vote for a cripple to become Prime Minister of great Canada.
In the ensuing elections, Canadian voters who had been so angered by her unkind remarks about someone who should have been receiving her sympathy, punished her party’s candidates so severely that its representation in the new legislature was reduced to almost zero. The outgoing Prime Minister herself lost her own constituency seat.
I had been invited to the Kololo for the swearing-in ceremony and had hoped to attend. Then news began to appear in the media that Dr Besigye had been prevented from returning from Nairobi where he had been rushed for treatment following an assault on his person by members of the police force. He had been expected to arrive on the previous Wednesday. On the Thursday, the police began to pour into the City and take up positions in strategic places as if expecting a massive force of an invading foreign army.
Although it is possible that they were guarding places for the safety of visiting African Presidents and other leaders, rumours circulated that they were targeting the arrival of Dr Besigye to assault and humiliate him and his supporters once again. No one in government denied these rumours. This led to thousands of Ugandans avoid Kololo, where the swearing-in of the President was taking place, and instead thronged Entebbe road, all the way from Entebbe Airport to Kampala City. On that same day, it was announced that Dr Besigye had been allowed to come home. Many Ugandans failed to understand why Dr Kizza Besigye had been prevented from coming home on the Wednesday but was permitted to return on the same Thursday that the President was to be sworn in, and in the presence of several African Presidents, Prime Ministers and other dignatories. Whatever reasons people may have had, Besigye’s arrival was bad timing as far as the swearing-in of President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni was concerned.
National and international media showed very little attendance at the swearing-in at Kololo airstrip but displayed thousands of Ugandans who thronged the road all the way from Entebbe to Kampala to welcome the leader of the FDC, Kizza Besigye returning home. Thousands of other Ugandans may have attended the swearing-in ceremony but it appeared that the greater number of citizens braved the anticipated confrontation between supporters or sympathisers of the injured FDC leader and the police and went to Entebbe Road instead.
These Ugandans preferred the discomfiture of standing and waiting by the roadside in order to boost the morale and support of the returning injured soldier, to the luxurious, pompous and colourful displays at the swearing-in ceremony. The lineups and queues on Entebbe Road looked orderly and peaceful until the Police intervened.
Incidentally, Ugandans have noticed over the years that demonstrating and assembling crowds are normally orderly and peaceful until the police and other members of security forces choose to interfere. The Thursday of swearing-in ceremony of the President on this occasion was no exception. People walked to and from many centres abutting onto Entebbe Road.
All seemed calm and peaceful, all the way from Entebbe airport through Kitooro, Windsor Hotel, Entebbe Hospital, the Botanical Gardens, Abaitababiri, Kisubi, Namulanda, Kajjansi, Lubowa until Najjanankumbi and Kibuye market. It is in the latter two places that the police were seen in great numbers. Many of the police men and women appeared agitated, confrontational and ready to charge into the crowd. It is then that hell broke loose.
Once again, the media showed images of the unacceptable and brutish methods of certain elements within the police force. These were ugly exhibitions of thuggery, reminiscent of the dictatorships and Aminism of the past.
The police indulge in these unacceptable behaviours and use brutal methods of crowd control under the pretext of maintaining law and order. Maybe one day, they should just be calm and refrain from forcefully charging into peaceful walking or marching crowds in pursuit of their constitutional rights, and see what happens when they do not charge or attack members of the public. They could easily be surprised by the peaceful manners in which demonstrations, which are uninterrupted by the police, are peaceful.
Justice Kanyeihamba is a retired
Supreme Court Judge
Sunday Monitor, May 29 2011
In search of literary treasures, I visit many places of interest. In one of them I came across four sets of three words which every person should learn and memorise. The first trio predict that once three things in life have gone, they never come back and they are Time, Words and Opportunity.
The second trio recites that three things in life can destroy a man or a woman and these are Drugs, Pride and Anger. The third trio confirms that three things in life are never certain and they include Dreams, Success and Fortune.
Lastly, the fourth trio is that three things make a man or woman and these are Hardwork, Sincerity and Commitment. The fifth trio together constitute the icing on the cake of life and are Personality, Belief and Integrity.
Political leaders and their supporters whether of government or opposition parties who do not humbly believe in or respect the majority or all of the trios of the three words aforementioned will soon or later be defeated or ruined regardless of status, wealth, power or style.
Following the recent general elections in which one political party, by fair or other means, gained majority vote support of the Uganda population, no one could have thought that even before new members of Parliament had been sworn in, Opposition parties in general and Dr Kizza Besigye in particular would appear to have more support and certainly appear more attractive and popular both nationally and internationally than those who had jubilated at his and the opposition’s poor showing in the general elections.
The former British Prime Minister, the late Harold Wilson who was loved and disliked equally at the same time by the various sections of the British public once described a week in politics as a lifetime.
It may also be recalled that a sitting Canadian Prime Minister with a comfortable parliamentary majority had parliament prorogued and called a general election. Her main opponent was a liberal party leader who had a speaking impediment caused by an illness. During the election campaign the Prime Minister mocked that opposition leader and called upon Canadians not to vote for a cripple to become Prime Minister of great Canada.
In the ensuing elections, Canadian voters who had been so angered by her unkind remarks about someone who should have been receiving her sympathy, punished her party’s candidates so severely that its representation in the new legislature was reduced to almost zero. The outgoing Prime Minister herself lost her own constituency seat.
I had been invited to the Kololo for the swearing-in ceremony and had hoped to attend. Then news began to appear in the media that Dr Besigye had been prevented from returning from Nairobi where he had been rushed for treatment following an assault on his person by members of the police force. He had been expected to arrive on the previous Wednesday. On the Thursday, the police began to pour into the City and take up positions in strategic places as if expecting a massive force of an invading foreign army.
Although it is possible that they were guarding places for the safety of visiting African Presidents and other leaders, rumours circulated that they were targeting the arrival of Dr Besigye to assault and humiliate him and his supporters once again. No one in government denied these rumours. This led to thousands of Ugandans avoid Kololo, where the swearing-in of the President was taking place, and instead thronged Entebbe road, all the way from Entebbe Airport to Kampala City. On that same day, it was announced that Dr Besigye had been allowed to come home. Many Ugandans failed to understand why Dr Kizza Besigye had been prevented from coming home on the Wednesday but was permitted to return on the same Thursday that the President was to be sworn in, and in the presence of several African Presidents, Prime Ministers and other dignatories. Whatever reasons people may have had, Besigye’s arrival was bad timing as far as the swearing-in of President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni was concerned.
National and international media showed very little attendance at the swearing-in at Kololo airstrip but displayed thousands of Ugandans who thronged the road all the way from Entebbe to Kampala to welcome the leader of the FDC, Kizza Besigye returning home. Thousands of other Ugandans may have attended the swearing-in ceremony but it appeared that the greater number of citizens braved the anticipated confrontation between supporters or sympathisers of the injured FDC leader and the police and went to Entebbe Road instead.
These Ugandans preferred the discomfiture of standing and waiting by the roadside in order to boost the morale and support of the returning injured soldier, to the luxurious, pompous and colourful displays at the swearing-in ceremony. The lineups and queues on Entebbe Road looked orderly and peaceful until the Police intervened.
Incidentally, Ugandans have noticed over the years that demonstrating and assembling crowds are normally orderly and peaceful until the police and other members of security forces choose to interfere. The Thursday of swearing-in ceremony of the President on this occasion was no exception. People walked to and from many centres abutting onto Entebbe Road.
All seemed calm and peaceful, all the way from Entebbe airport through Kitooro, Windsor Hotel, Entebbe Hospital, the Botanical Gardens, Abaitababiri, Kisubi, Namulanda, Kajjansi, Lubowa until Najjanankumbi and Kibuye market. It is in the latter two places that the police were seen in great numbers. Many of the police men and women appeared agitated, confrontational and ready to charge into the crowd. It is then that hell broke loose.
Once again, the media showed images of the unacceptable and brutish methods of certain elements within the police force. These were ugly exhibitions of thuggery, reminiscent of the dictatorships and Aminism of the past.
The police indulge in these unacceptable behaviours and use brutal methods of crowd control under the pretext of maintaining law and order. Maybe one day, they should just be calm and refrain from forcefully charging into peaceful walking or marching crowds in pursuit of their constitutional rights, and see what happens when they do not charge or attack members of the public. They could easily be surprised by the peaceful manners in which demonstrations, which are uninterrupted by the police, are peaceful.
Justice Kanyeihamba is a retired
Supreme Court Judge
Prof Joe Oloka-Onyango: Why not just abolish the constitution?
Written by Prof Joe Oloka-Onyango
Monday, 23 May 2011
Although not surprised, I was rather disturbed to hear of President Museveni’s most recent proposals on constitutional and legal reform.
The situation was made worse by the ranting of minister Kabakumba Masiko who went live on a BBC news programme on May 18, to declare that “enemies of the state”, (particularly the media), will be “dealt with” in a bid to stop what she described as the “nonsense” of free expression by organisations like the BBC, Al Jazeera, NTV and Daily Monitor.
Among the proposals for constitutional and legal reform are the introduction of new offences such as economic sabotage, the removal of bail for such an offence, as well as many others already in the Penal Code, and a whole raft of suggestions on how to tame the media—both print and electronic. For students of the history of Uganda, such suggestions must ring with an ominous air.
One of Milton Obote’s first moves after overthrowing the 1962 (independence) Constitution in 1966 was to introduce Detention-without-Trial, first of all through ordinary regulations to be enforced by the minister of Internal Affairs, and later through what was called the Public Order and Safety Act (POSA).
While we know of the more prominent victims of that law, like Benedicto Kiwanuka, Abu Mayanja and Dan Wadada Nabudere, there were literally hundreds of unknown Ugandans who languished in our jails without trial, basically from 1966 until Obote was overthrown in 1971.
It is also not too long ago that Idi Amin came to power (a mere 40 years!) with a raft of military decrees that effectively closed down the press, monopolised political space which Idi Amin occupied exclusively, and led to the complete eradication of all imaginable freedoms; from what one could dress, to what one could eat, to whom one could talk to.
The only way Amin did this was to abolish the clause in the 1967 Constitution which stated: “This Constitution is the Supreme Law of Uganda.” And again, for those who care to remember, Amin was no friend of a free press or of any other of the democratic freedoms that are today enshrined in the 1995 Constitution.
The fact is that not only are the NRM government proposals on public order management and censorship of the media overly broad, they are fundamentally unconstitutional. And they are unconstitutional not simply on account of the removal of what have come to be regarded as the basic freedoms—movement, speech, assembly and association—that the NRM government is so unhappy about, but because such restrictions will infect several other parts of the Constitution; what exactly do I mean by ‘infection’?
If the automatic right to bail is removed, it will affect several other rights, such as freedom of movement, the right to life (in its broadest sense), freedom of speech, and many others. It will also run against both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution, which reminds us to “recall our history” of tyranny and dictatorship in order not to repeat it.
The National Objectives and Directive Principles of State Policy enshrines binding democratic principles on the state. Article 3 of the 1995 constitution also prevents any unlawful amendment to the Constitution which has the effect of suspending, overthrowing, or abrogating the constitution.
In effect, the imposition of further restrictions on the rights to speak, associate and demonstrate will amount to an unlawful amendment because it will overthrow the very foundation on which the 1995 constitution was built. While recognising that all rights can be restricted, the extent of the restriction cannot be over-broadened.
A mandatory six months sentence without bail or trial for just walking to work represents the reintroduction of detention without trial, thereby violating Article 43(2) (b), while the focus on ‘economic crimes’ recalls the days of the Anti-Smuggling Unit which wreaked havoc on ordinary Ugandans.
But most importantly, the proposed amendments would offend two other cardinal principles in the 1995 Constitution. The first is that of independence of the Judiciary, which gives the Judiciary the power to determine whether the conditions of bail are adequate or not; it is not the Executive to do so.
The second principle is contained in Article 126(3) which stipulates that all organs and agencies of the state shall “… accord to the courts such assistance as may be required to ensure the effectiveness of the courts.” Introducing the amendments proposed would undermine that assistance. In sum, what the proposed amendments would do is to effectively overturn the constitution.
The author is professor of law at Makerere University and head of the Human Rights Peace Centre (HURIPEC).
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Mr.
written by Katono , May 22, 2011
Hallo Oluka
As Museveni looses popularity like any dictator he will start to fear and or assume that everyone is an enemy even his family members started with the opposition, the other day its was religious leaders, then media houses & journalists, he added on the international community & diplomats, then a told Universities dons to go and hanger now the brutality & killing of civilians & now the media is likening him Idi Amin, don't be amused when he turns against his own son thinking he wants to take the mantle from next time that's why former Ghanaian president admitted that sometime they act like they are on drugs
Now he is going to kill his own constitution but all the same his days are numbered.
Truth will out
written by Betty Long Cap , May 22, 2011
From what I read at The Observer, the Constitution has already been abolished and Ugandans live in a repressive police state with no term limits, fraudulent elections, and harsh treatment of opposition to the dictator.
And yet there is hope for a truly democratic society with enough citizens who will not be deceived, silenced, certainly not bought and willing to walk to work.
Like UK with no constitution
written by victor , May 22, 2011
You are right. Just like United Kingdom is without a constitution but they have laws and traditions agreed on and acceptable to the people.
People make Constitution
written by kebirungi akiiki , May 22, 2011
The writer is viewing the modification or the alteration of the constitution from a different angle or perspective,may be with a bias. He does not condemn the obstruction of peace, misuse of liberty, abuse of freedom causing and provoking violence.
The liberty of bail or parole should not be taken advantage of. I request the writer to observe the manner in which dissatisfaction has been expressed unlawfully, obstructin public peace.
The writer should remember that the constitution did not dictate itself but was made by the people, for the people and of the people, to protect the interests of the people of Uganda.
Policy makers who look at the crimes and compare, gather information on crimes and criminal behavior, get data of victim statistics and areas most affected by violence and criminal activity will look at the country's policing system and the punishments.
After reading reports, studies and statistical analyses written by police officers, lawyers, correctional officers and other criminologists, may be interviewing detectives, criminals and victims assessing crime scenes and courtrooms, also look at the frequency and trends of repeated crimes have right to come up with conclusions about the modification of Article 43(2)(b)in order to lessen the density, and effect of the repeated crimes on the people.
Dr Oloka flogging a dead horse
written by 2011 , May 23, 2011
Whatever is said is falling on deaf ears, I dont hope Museveni will change even if you cry yourself hoarse, it has been determined, and the EU endorsed his legality, yet we know deep down in our hearts that he has always came to power through crude means, and we cannot respect that, not even heaven will.
Secondly even Napoleon had to face defeat at Waterloo and it will come whetehr we want it to or not,everything has its time, a time to rise and a time to fall.A time to hope and a time to give up as lost.
Thirdly, as Mrs Museveni puts it, yes, he is the Biblical Moses. Do I remember Moses doing witchcraft or socery or divination. Moses infact killed the idol worshippers on the slopes of Mt Sinai after receiving the Ten Commandments.!
What an irony and a deception all along!
winds of change
written by Betty Long Cap , May 23, 2011
victor, England has an unwritten Constitution dating back to the Magna Carta. It is that tradition of rule by law that the colonists brought to America and that makes the United States the best example of democracy in the world faults not withstanding.
Consider a Constitution and Bill of Rights is above the President and higher than civil law. Violation of constitutional rights is proof of a dictatorship. Dictatorships are an open invitation to anarchy. Witness what has happened in North Africa and other Islamic countries this spring when oppressed people say no more.
With increasing demands no president indeed no country can stop the rise of fuel and food prices. What a country can do is require the President to uphold the national Constitution. Two consecutive terms and out!
@ Kebirungi
written by Jules , May 23, 2011
Yes laws are written by the people in power to keep them in power. Nonetheless- these laws will be used against people indiscriminately. Let me remind you that even apartheid SA had laws created by the people (in power) to gag ordinary citizens.
Just a word of caution be sure not to be caught on the wrong side of these ridiculous laws!!!! Oh may i remind you that the Ugandan parliament stopped to exist when all its powers were handed over to the president and as such they do not represent ordinary Ugandan but the vision of the president whatever it may be.
I believe one fine day we shall build a better Uganda based on respect of basic human rights where the law does not discriminate against those who just happen to disagree with government and are put together with murderers, rapists etc.
Oloka is right.
written by sophie nakueira , May 23, 2011
In answer to Keibirungi Akiiki, I do not see any bias in the writer's article. he is merely stating the facts and backing it with reasonable interpretation of the principles of the Ugandan Constitution.
First of all, when people excercise their right to walk it is misinterpreted as provoking violence by a political party that is increasingly losing its legitimacy by responding with violence to peaceful demonstrations.
The fact of the matter is these so called proposed crimes are the workings of a desperate government. You cannot truthfully believe that the Ugandan government is proposing 6 months sentences without bail to 'protect the interests of Uganda'.
If anything they are indeed against the very principles of peace that Museveni 'brought' with him when he came into power.
Not only do these provisions serve to deter would be opposition to the NRM government, they are so broad that anything could fall within economic sabotage (this from a government that uses the country's resources as its own bank account).
But let's say these proposed provisions are indeed passed into law, how will Uganda reconcile its obligations under international law when they overlap with the very principles it seeks to abolish?
Freedom must reflect the society
written by victor , May 23, 2011
Professor Oloka Onyango is trying to stick to the British way of life and is advocating many restrictions to the constitution which is out of touch with workable governance in Uganda.
Oloka, born in UK, hence the meaning of his name should be able to see that the practising of one's right the way Besigye does is selfish. Many poor people lose the means of their meagre incomes when Besigye's hooligans destroy poorer people's property.
Most of them are not insured as Besigye practises his "rights" while these people's property is destroyed. Human rights the UK style do not cater for the rights of Ugandan poor, but the elites who have a similar standard of living as that of UK.
Look at Besigye, disobeying the police or court orders, hurling insults at his rival Museveni for defeating him, and nothing is done about it. If Museveni was also to exercise his individual human rights and insult Besigye, or take him to court every now and then, Besigye would have to pay a lot of fines, so that he would have been forced to sell off his 11 petrol stations or his Equatoria hotel or farm in Kasangati, or his fuel guzzlers to pay off the fines.
Besigye is becoming a nuisance to Uganda. He employed goons to pelt visiting African presidents with stones. The goons must have been practising their rights when they were high. This must be stopped.
Victor
written by naki , May 24, 2011
"Oloka born in the U.K.! Come on Victor! You seem to forget that the guy was raised in Uganda. Your comments erase his qualifications from which he writes his well researched article. Shame on kavuyo people like you who see no wrong in the Ugandan situation!
Reaping what we Sow.
written by Ndiwulila , May 24, 2011
Joe, Laws are not cast in stone and may be adjusted or amended to match the dynamics of a society. As a law Academic you must surely know this!
Lawyers have time and again managed to help criminals beat the Justice system because they are trained to read between the lines and take advantage of the loopholes - including technicalities, majorly for monetary gain.
It does not make sense for someone to repeatedly break the law knowing that they will get away because of weak laws, and poor facilitation. Seriously sanity must prevail.
FYI, it isn't the Judiciary or Police that makes these laws, but they always get the fallout/blame for our (society) misdeeds.
A largely undisciplined backward society probably needs so called "draconian" or "colonial" deterrence to tame their primitive ways.
I can now see perpetual lawbreakers and smart criminals cringing at the thought of 180 days "on leave".
vuvuzela could spread disease!
written by victor , May 24, 2011
Now that the disgruntled losers have reverted from 'walk to work' it is still better to say that they have hijacked the peasants' revolution.
Besigye cannot lead poor people's revolution because he is not one of them. He used his stint in NRM to enrich himself. He's a medical doctor yet he has failed to advise people that vuvuzela could spread disease. BBC, Besigye's mentors have just said so quoting a research.
Either way Besigye is still a strange bedfellow in this poor people's 'revolution' and he benefits from kavuyo more than anyone else.
will not be able to dance to the west
written by kizito , May 24, 2011
The pretender cannot do that because he will not be able to beg for money from the west. It is m7 rules change as it suits his sucking agenda !
Akiiki and Victor
written by Hairy Chest , May 24, 2011
It is obvious these two respondents must go and have a "drink or take a pill"
Was colonisation in British 'constitution'?
written by victor , May 24, 2011
Betty Long Cap, Ugandans do not need more lectures about its constitution being modelled on colonialist and imperialist countries' constitution(s).
We want to make our own constitution based on our situation, laws, traditions, economic situation, culture and so on. Was the enslavement of Africans constitutional in your country's 'Magna Carta'?
What is your interest in persisting in Western's countries' constitution(being) the model for Uganda? We're in the process of decolonization and need to get rid of those neofascists' ideas being imposed on Uganda from without.Forgive some of us; we do not know some of the meanings of what you are writing about, English being the colonial enemy's language.
ADOPT THE GERMAN GOV'T STYLE!
written by OJA , May 25, 2011
I salute Professor Oloka for the few notes of enlightenment has posted. His suggestion (Why not just abolish the Constitution) is an understatement.
He should have suggested something more concrete as a lawyer, and I guess, as a guardian of true constitutionalism. Anyhow, if truly the so-called 1995 constitution was written with the hindsight to avoid the repeat of the atrocities of the past (call it our history), then what has happened, that which is happening now and still going to happen is a clear sign of a dog returning to eat its own vomit!
So, here is what I suggest: Adopt the German style of government. Let government be built by a coalition of parties whereby a single party alone has no mandate to form a government except the one with the majority votes can choose the chancellor (Prime Minister).
Finally the president is chosen by the parliament as a ceremonial figure. Why did the Germans adopt this strategy? because of their history of personality cult. Adolf Hitler was too much of a leader (dictator) so much so that his actions which sparked off the World War II and thus tarnish the image of the whole German society set the precedence for the post war German society to adopt a new form of government which I have described above.
Likewise, it would therefore help Uganda a great deal, if we avoided the type of government built around personality cult (dictatorship) and move to reduce or chop off the innate propensity of individuals who claim too much power, who in turn use it to oppress, abuse, intimidate and terrorise their own citizens and in the end also give a bad name to the entire country.
this bell calls us all
written by Betty Long Cap , May 25, 2011
victor, as Condi Rice pointed out in a congressional hearing on 9-11, the Founding Fathers did not have her in mind when they wrote the Constitution.
Neither did they have me. Not until 1920 were women given the elective franchise. Becoming a democratic society is a costly process.
I am surprised how fluent you are in English, considering you regard English as "the colonial enemy's language". You must have studied abroad to have such fluency but why fight colonialism and fail to see African dictators have served your continent no better.
victor asks, "Was the enslavement of Africans constitutional in your country's 'Magna Carta'?" No, and neither was "all men are created equal" a constitutional exclusion of women. More Americans were killed in the Civil War fighting to end slavery than all our wars before and since. A woman has yet to be elected president.
You think you can make your "own constitution based on [your] situation, laws, traditions, economic situation, culture and so on" but you are delusional. You would be the first country to do that. Uganda is not an island. To quote an Englishman:
"All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated...As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness....No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne (1572-1631). http://www.phrases.org.uk/mean...sland.html
...
written by James , May 25, 2011
If this amendment was passed,it would pave way for a number of illegal detentions. Any one will set you up and accuse you of rape, economic sabotage, defilement, and the like just to ensure that you are kept away for a while...University students demonstrating against bad food would have to be kept away for months.
The media reporting about Govt's excesses would fall into the economic sabotage group. What if one is then found innocent after 6months in jail? would the law also propose heavy damages?
...
written by James , May 25, 2011
the proponents of this law should know that any one of us could fall prey to it. Don't only look at Besigye and Co. any of us could be wrongly or rightfully accused of one crime or another and denied our right to bail.
It is only when this strikes home that even the supporters will shudder in desperation. The bible says..the wicked set traps only to fall in them....
'colonial language'
written by victor , May 25, 2011
Betty Long Cap being 'fluent' in English does not exonerate it from being a colonial language. We have our own languages and if I were to speak to you in those languages you would not understand, because the colonialists did not regard them as languages of people.
The colonialists used zoological terms to define our languages. Now they are using those attitudes to stealthly tell us to adopt their constitutions to erase our identity. Remember the treaties they made our people sign! Even those women's 'things' they talk about, they are the new imperialists to 'teach' our women.
Our women can do their 'own thing' and do not need to be maids in the households in the West for those 'newly liberated' women to go to work for the first time away from being domesticated. Africans have their own way. Moreover, one does not need to go to abroad to learn English. It is right here in Uganda as the 'official' language - the colonial language!
Which bell... We beat drums!
written by victor , May 25, 2011
Again, bell ringing is not African. Rather, we talk of our drums or the drum beats. You see I am looking at everything from an African eye and that is why we need a constitution made by us and jettison most of what Betty Cap Long is trying to tell us.
You began by quoting scriptures, then proposing a British model of constitution, now Western women's lib! What if we came to your country, imagining you were not from Africa, and we violently told you to adopt our language, and a constitution based on our African ways of life or situation and called it 'universal human rights' would you agree without a fight?
What if we from Africa came to Europe and claimed the place is fallow without people, and renamed a town or village there Nakulabye and abolished the local name? Would you take it on bended knees? What if I told you from today start worshiping Mukasa, or Lubale and changed the name of Thames river to Nyanja Nalubale, probably you would be very happy with us? From here we can have a little dialogue!
rantings or ramblings
written by Betty Long Cap , May 25, 2011
"If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured, or far away." Henry David Thoreau wrote in Walden.
victor, do you really want the western world to leave you alone to march to your own African drummer? When you get sick, do you seek medical intervention with pharmaceuticals developed in the west or do you go to your local healer for herbs?
How many HIV/AIDS positive Ugandans are alive today because of American medicines and foreign aid?
Do you ever drink Coca Cola or Pepsi? As much as he hated the land of the Infidels, Osama bin Laden would have both sodas delivered to his "home away from home" in Pakistan.
America does not hesitate to borrow from European countries and native Indian tribes to name cities, rivers, even states e.g. the town of West Lafayette, city of Los Angeles, the river Cuyahoga, and the state of Louisiana. We even borrow Arab names such as Medina and Memphis with no shame or guilt.
Perhaps the difference is America is a melting pot of people groups while indigenous people marry within their own tribe and generation and want to preseve their unique culture unadulterated by outside influence even if it means extinction.
Can any country expect to have a democracy when tribal self-interests eclipse national. I suspect democracy can coexist with a tribal social system if there are strong constitutional safeguards against long-seated dictatorships but that has yet to be proven because dictators abolish term limits.
How much of a debt do Afro-Americans have to African brothers who sold their forefathers into slavery? In the sixties we heard demands for reparations but isn't there enough guilt to spread on three continents and both races.
How many north African Arabs can trace their ancestory back to kidnapped Europeans along the Atlantic coast and then sold at the slave auctions in Algiers?
Wer zuletzt lacht, lacht am besten.
Betty, go home!
written by victor , May 25, 2011
Yes. We want to be left alone and not be told how to write or rewrite our constitution. You say we sold our brothers into slavery, what about the slave raids your forefathers organised and the forts they built to herd Africans before shipping them away from home and stopping them from speaking their languages?
If you are so kind why don't you talk about the people that the slave riders dumped in the sea when there were storms? Did our forefathers travel to Europe or America to bring slaves?
And who mistreated our brothers and sisters in America, and treated them like commodity until this day? Is it we Africans doing that? Betty, just go home! We are not going to listen to you! What debt do we have?
Do you mean from your DEAD AID? We don't need it. Who brought AIDS to Africa? Or small pox? Who cares about your Coca Cola or Coke full of cocaine? When we are sick we have our indigenous medicine first and foremost. Betty, take your crap with you.
You country has to pay reparations to Africa for stealing our people's labour to develop foreign lands.
tribal self-interest?
written by victor , May 25, 2011
When the Irish tribe and the English tribe fight each other and use their witchcraft aginst each other, we have not accused them of anything.
Instead, we have left them to 'do their thing' and we have not intervened to 'civilize' them to bring our African way of life upon them by force. When Columbus was killing the native Americans and setting dogs to bite them that is something even you Betty Long Cap should 'enlighten' other cultures about, and not only talk of Coca Cola and Pepsi. We have our Mwenge Bigere and Malwa for drinks which we cannot compare with those items you mentioned.
Los Angeles?
written by victor , May 25, 2011
Los Angeles is a Spanish name. The Spanish had renamed this area after taking it from the native Americans. Then the Anglo Saxons took it by force after a war with the Spanish.
How did you borrow this name? Cuyahonga is a native name of a native place by native people. How do you borrow a native name of a place? Betty you are an imperialist. We have to guard against your type. You are very restless! In the same way, are you trying to abolish African ethnic groups or nationalities or nations? What are you talking about? And your purpose?
Monday, 23 May 2011
Although not surprised, I was rather disturbed to hear of President Museveni’s most recent proposals on constitutional and legal reform.
The situation was made worse by the ranting of minister Kabakumba Masiko who went live on a BBC news programme on May 18, to declare that “enemies of the state”, (particularly the media), will be “dealt with” in a bid to stop what she described as the “nonsense” of free expression by organisations like the BBC, Al Jazeera, NTV and Daily Monitor.
Among the proposals for constitutional and legal reform are the introduction of new offences such as economic sabotage, the removal of bail for such an offence, as well as many others already in the Penal Code, and a whole raft of suggestions on how to tame the media—both print and electronic. For students of the history of Uganda, such suggestions must ring with an ominous air.
One of Milton Obote’s first moves after overthrowing the 1962 (independence) Constitution in 1966 was to introduce Detention-without-Trial, first of all through ordinary regulations to be enforced by the minister of Internal Affairs, and later through what was called the Public Order and Safety Act (POSA).
While we know of the more prominent victims of that law, like Benedicto Kiwanuka, Abu Mayanja and Dan Wadada Nabudere, there were literally hundreds of unknown Ugandans who languished in our jails without trial, basically from 1966 until Obote was overthrown in 1971.
It is also not too long ago that Idi Amin came to power (a mere 40 years!) with a raft of military decrees that effectively closed down the press, monopolised political space which Idi Amin occupied exclusively, and led to the complete eradication of all imaginable freedoms; from what one could dress, to what one could eat, to whom one could talk to.
The only way Amin did this was to abolish the clause in the 1967 Constitution which stated: “This Constitution is the Supreme Law of Uganda.” And again, for those who care to remember, Amin was no friend of a free press or of any other of the democratic freedoms that are today enshrined in the 1995 Constitution.
The fact is that not only are the NRM government proposals on public order management and censorship of the media overly broad, they are fundamentally unconstitutional. And they are unconstitutional not simply on account of the removal of what have come to be regarded as the basic freedoms—movement, speech, assembly and association—that the NRM government is so unhappy about, but because such restrictions will infect several other parts of the Constitution; what exactly do I mean by ‘infection’?
If the automatic right to bail is removed, it will affect several other rights, such as freedom of movement, the right to life (in its broadest sense), freedom of speech, and many others. It will also run against both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution, which reminds us to “recall our history” of tyranny and dictatorship in order not to repeat it.
The National Objectives and Directive Principles of State Policy enshrines binding democratic principles on the state. Article 3 of the 1995 constitution also prevents any unlawful amendment to the Constitution which has the effect of suspending, overthrowing, or abrogating the constitution.
In effect, the imposition of further restrictions on the rights to speak, associate and demonstrate will amount to an unlawful amendment because it will overthrow the very foundation on which the 1995 constitution was built. While recognising that all rights can be restricted, the extent of the restriction cannot be over-broadened.
A mandatory six months sentence without bail or trial for just walking to work represents the reintroduction of detention without trial, thereby violating Article 43(2) (b), while the focus on ‘economic crimes’ recalls the days of the Anti-Smuggling Unit which wreaked havoc on ordinary Ugandans.
But most importantly, the proposed amendments would offend two other cardinal principles in the 1995 Constitution. The first is that of independence of the Judiciary, which gives the Judiciary the power to determine whether the conditions of bail are adequate or not; it is not the Executive to do so.
The second principle is contained in Article 126(3) which stipulates that all organs and agencies of the state shall “… accord to the courts such assistance as may be required to ensure the effectiveness of the courts.” Introducing the amendments proposed would undermine that assistance. In sum, what the proposed amendments would do is to effectively overturn the constitution.
The author is professor of law at Makerere University and head of the Human Rights Peace Centre (HURIPEC).
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Mr.
written by Katono , May 22, 2011
Hallo Oluka
As Museveni looses popularity like any dictator he will start to fear and or assume that everyone is an enemy even his family members started with the opposition, the other day its was religious leaders, then media houses & journalists, he added on the international community & diplomats, then a told Universities dons to go and hanger now the brutality & killing of civilians & now the media is likening him Idi Amin, don't be amused when he turns against his own son thinking he wants to take the mantle from next time that's why former Ghanaian president admitted that sometime they act like they are on drugs
Now he is going to kill his own constitution but all the same his days are numbered.
Truth will out
written by Betty Long Cap , May 22, 2011
From what I read at The Observer, the Constitution has already been abolished and Ugandans live in a repressive police state with no term limits, fraudulent elections, and harsh treatment of opposition to the dictator.
And yet there is hope for a truly democratic society with enough citizens who will not be deceived, silenced, certainly not bought and willing to walk to work.
Like UK with no constitution
written by victor , May 22, 2011
You are right. Just like United Kingdom is without a constitution but they have laws and traditions agreed on and acceptable to the people.
People make Constitution
written by kebirungi akiiki , May 22, 2011
The writer is viewing the modification or the alteration of the constitution from a different angle or perspective,may be with a bias. He does not condemn the obstruction of peace, misuse of liberty, abuse of freedom causing and provoking violence.
The liberty of bail or parole should not be taken advantage of. I request the writer to observe the manner in which dissatisfaction has been expressed unlawfully, obstructin public peace.
The writer should remember that the constitution did not dictate itself but was made by the people, for the people and of the people, to protect the interests of the people of Uganda.
Policy makers who look at the crimes and compare, gather information on crimes and criminal behavior, get data of victim statistics and areas most affected by violence and criminal activity will look at the country's policing system and the punishments.
After reading reports, studies and statistical analyses written by police officers, lawyers, correctional officers and other criminologists, may be interviewing detectives, criminals and victims assessing crime scenes and courtrooms, also look at the frequency and trends of repeated crimes have right to come up with conclusions about the modification of Article 43(2)(b)in order to lessen the density, and effect of the repeated crimes on the people.
Dr Oloka flogging a dead horse
written by 2011 , May 23, 2011
Whatever is said is falling on deaf ears, I dont hope Museveni will change even if you cry yourself hoarse, it has been determined, and the EU endorsed his legality, yet we know deep down in our hearts that he has always came to power through crude means, and we cannot respect that, not even heaven will.
Secondly even Napoleon had to face defeat at Waterloo and it will come whetehr we want it to or not,everything has its time, a time to rise and a time to fall.A time to hope and a time to give up as lost.
Thirdly, as Mrs Museveni puts it, yes, he is the Biblical Moses. Do I remember Moses doing witchcraft or socery or divination. Moses infact killed the idol worshippers on the slopes of Mt Sinai after receiving the Ten Commandments.!
What an irony and a deception all along!
winds of change
written by Betty Long Cap , May 23, 2011
victor, England has an unwritten Constitution dating back to the Magna Carta. It is that tradition of rule by law that the colonists brought to America and that makes the United States the best example of democracy in the world faults not withstanding.
Consider a Constitution and Bill of Rights is above the President and higher than civil law. Violation of constitutional rights is proof of a dictatorship. Dictatorships are an open invitation to anarchy. Witness what has happened in North Africa and other Islamic countries this spring when oppressed people say no more.
With increasing demands no president indeed no country can stop the rise of fuel and food prices. What a country can do is require the President to uphold the national Constitution. Two consecutive terms and out!
@ Kebirungi
written by Jules , May 23, 2011
Yes laws are written by the people in power to keep them in power. Nonetheless- these laws will be used against people indiscriminately. Let me remind you that even apartheid SA had laws created by the people (in power) to gag ordinary citizens.
Just a word of caution be sure not to be caught on the wrong side of these ridiculous laws!!!! Oh may i remind you that the Ugandan parliament stopped to exist when all its powers were handed over to the president and as such they do not represent ordinary Ugandan but the vision of the president whatever it may be.
I believe one fine day we shall build a better Uganda based on respect of basic human rights where the law does not discriminate against those who just happen to disagree with government and are put together with murderers, rapists etc.
Oloka is right.
written by sophie nakueira , May 23, 2011
In answer to Keibirungi Akiiki, I do not see any bias in the writer's article. he is merely stating the facts and backing it with reasonable interpretation of the principles of the Ugandan Constitution.
First of all, when people excercise their right to walk it is misinterpreted as provoking violence by a political party that is increasingly losing its legitimacy by responding with violence to peaceful demonstrations.
The fact of the matter is these so called proposed crimes are the workings of a desperate government. You cannot truthfully believe that the Ugandan government is proposing 6 months sentences without bail to 'protect the interests of Uganda'.
If anything they are indeed against the very principles of peace that Museveni 'brought' with him when he came into power.
Not only do these provisions serve to deter would be opposition to the NRM government, they are so broad that anything could fall within economic sabotage (this from a government that uses the country's resources as its own bank account).
But let's say these proposed provisions are indeed passed into law, how will Uganda reconcile its obligations under international law when they overlap with the very principles it seeks to abolish?
Freedom must reflect the society
written by victor , May 23, 2011
Professor Oloka Onyango is trying to stick to the British way of life and is advocating many restrictions to the constitution which is out of touch with workable governance in Uganda.
Oloka, born in UK, hence the meaning of his name should be able to see that the practising of one's right the way Besigye does is selfish. Many poor people lose the means of their meagre incomes when Besigye's hooligans destroy poorer people's property.
Most of them are not insured as Besigye practises his "rights" while these people's property is destroyed. Human rights the UK style do not cater for the rights of Ugandan poor, but the elites who have a similar standard of living as that of UK.
Look at Besigye, disobeying the police or court orders, hurling insults at his rival Museveni for defeating him, and nothing is done about it. If Museveni was also to exercise his individual human rights and insult Besigye, or take him to court every now and then, Besigye would have to pay a lot of fines, so that he would have been forced to sell off his 11 petrol stations or his Equatoria hotel or farm in Kasangati, or his fuel guzzlers to pay off the fines.
Besigye is becoming a nuisance to Uganda. He employed goons to pelt visiting African presidents with stones. The goons must have been practising their rights when they were high. This must be stopped.
Victor
written by naki , May 24, 2011
"Oloka born in the U.K.! Come on Victor! You seem to forget that the guy was raised in Uganda. Your comments erase his qualifications from which he writes his well researched article. Shame on kavuyo people like you who see no wrong in the Ugandan situation!
Reaping what we Sow.
written by Ndiwulila , May 24, 2011
Joe, Laws are not cast in stone and may be adjusted or amended to match the dynamics of a society. As a law Academic you must surely know this!
Lawyers have time and again managed to help criminals beat the Justice system because they are trained to read between the lines and take advantage of the loopholes - including technicalities, majorly for monetary gain.
It does not make sense for someone to repeatedly break the law knowing that they will get away because of weak laws, and poor facilitation. Seriously sanity must prevail.
FYI, it isn't the Judiciary or Police that makes these laws, but they always get the fallout/blame for our (society) misdeeds.
A largely undisciplined backward society probably needs so called "draconian" or "colonial" deterrence to tame their primitive ways.
I can now see perpetual lawbreakers and smart criminals cringing at the thought of 180 days "on leave".
vuvuzela could spread disease!
written by victor , May 24, 2011
Now that the disgruntled losers have reverted from 'walk to work' it is still better to say that they have hijacked the peasants' revolution.
Besigye cannot lead poor people's revolution because he is not one of them. He used his stint in NRM to enrich himself. He's a medical doctor yet he has failed to advise people that vuvuzela could spread disease. BBC, Besigye's mentors have just said so quoting a research.
Either way Besigye is still a strange bedfellow in this poor people's 'revolution' and he benefits from kavuyo more than anyone else.
will not be able to dance to the west
written by kizito , May 24, 2011
The pretender cannot do that because he will not be able to beg for money from the west. It is m7 rules change as it suits his sucking agenda !
Akiiki and Victor
written by Hairy Chest , May 24, 2011
It is obvious these two respondents must go and have a "drink or take a pill"
Was colonisation in British 'constitution'?
written by victor , May 24, 2011
Betty Long Cap, Ugandans do not need more lectures about its constitution being modelled on colonialist and imperialist countries' constitution(s).
We want to make our own constitution based on our situation, laws, traditions, economic situation, culture and so on. Was the enslavement of Africans constitutional in your country's 'Magna Carta'?
What is your interest in persisting in Western's countries' constitution(being) the model for Uganda? We're in the process of decolonization and need to get rid of those neofascists' ideas being imposed on Uganda from without.Forgive some of us; we do not know some of the meanings of what you are writing about, English being the colonial enemy's language.
ADOPT THE GERMAN GOV'T STYLE!
written by OJA , May 25, 2011
I salute Professor Oloka for the few notes of enlightenment has posted. His suggestion (Why not just abolish the Constitution) is an understatement.
He should have suggested something more concrete as a lawyer, and I guess, as a guardian of true constitutionalism. Anyhow, if truly the so-called 1995 constitution was written with the hindsight to avoid the repeat of the atrocities of the past (call it our history), then what has happened, that which is happening now and still going to happen is a clear sign of a dog returning to eat its own vomit!
So, here is what I suggest: Adopt the German style of government. Let government be built by a coalition of parties whereby a single party alone has no mandate to form a government except the one with the majority votes can choose the chancellor (Prime Minister).
Finally the president is chosen by the parliament as a ceremonial figure. Why did the Germans adopt this strategy? because of their history of personality cult. Adolf Hitler was too much of a leader (dictator) so much so that his actions which sparked off the World War II and thus tarnish the image of the whole German society set the precedence for the post war German society to adopt a new form of government which I have described above.
Likewise, it would therefore help Uganda a great deal, if we avoided the type of government built around personality cult (dictatorship) and move to reduce or chop off the innate propensity of individuals who claim too much power, who in turn use it to oppress, abuse, intimidate and terrorise their own citizens and in the end also give a bad name to the entire country.
this bell calls us all
written by Betty Long Cap , May 25, 2011
victor, as Condi Rice pointed out in a congressional hearing on 9-11, the Founding Fathers did not have her in mind when they wrote the Constitution.
Neither did they have me. Not until 1920 were women given the elective franchise. Becoming a democratic society is a costly process.
I am surprised how fluent you are in English, considering you regard English as "the colonial enemy's language". You must have studied abroad to have such fluency but why fight colonialism and fail to see African dictators have served your continent no better.
victor asks, "Was the enslavement of Africans constitutional in your country's 'Magna Carta'?" No, and neither was "all men are created equal" a constitutional exclusion of women. More Americans were killed in the Civil War fighting to end slavery than all our wars before and since. A woman has yet to be elected president.
You think you can make your "own constitution based on [your] situation, laws, traditions, economic situation, culture and so on" but you are delusional. You would be the first country to do that. Uganda is not an island. To quote an Englishman:
"All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated...As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness....No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne (1572-1631). http://www.phrases.org.uk/mean...sland.html
...
written by James , May 25, 2011
If this amendment was passed,it would pave way for a number of illegal detentions. Any one will set you up and accuse you of rape, economic sabotage, defilement, and the like just to ensure that you are kept away for a while...University students demonstrating against bad food would have to be kept away for months.
The media reporting about Govt's excesses would fall into the economic sabotage group. What if one is then found innocent after 6months in jail? would the law also propose heavy damages?
...
written by James , May 25, 2011
the proponents of this law should know that any one of us could fall prey to it. Don't only look at Besigye and Co. any of us could be wrongly or rightfully accused of one crime or another and denied our right to bail.
It is only when this strikes home that even the supporters will shudder in desperation. The bible says..the wicked set traps only to fall in them....
'colonial language'
written by victor , May 25, 2011
Betty Long Cap being 'fluent' in English does not exonerate it from being a colonial language. We have our own languages and if I were to speak to you in those languages you would not understand, because the colonialists did not regard them as languages of people.
The colonialists used zoological terms to define our languages. Now they are using those attitudes to stealthly tell us to adopt their constitutions to erase our identity. Remember the treaties they made our people sign! Even those women's 'things' they talk about, they are the new imperialists to 'teach' our women.
Our women can do their 'own thing' and do not need to be maids in the households in the West for those 'newly liberated' women to go to work for the first time away from being domesticated. Africans have their own way. Moreover, one does not need to go to abroad to learn English. It is right here in Uganda as the 'official' language - the colonial language!
Which bell... We beat drums!
written by victor , May 25, 2011
Again, bell ringing is not African. Rather, we talk of our drums or the drum beats. You see I am looking at everything from an African eye and that is why we need a constitution made by us and jettison most of what Betty Cap Long is trying to tell us.
You began by quoting scriptures, then proposing a British model of constitution, now Western women's lib! What if we came to your country, imagining you were not from Africa, and we violently told you to adopt our language, and a constitution based on our African ways of life or situation and called it 'universal human rights' would you agree without a fight?
What if we from Africa came to Europe and claimed the place is fallow without people, and renamed a town or village there Nakulabye and abolished the local name? Would you take it on bended knees? What if I told you from today start worshiping Mukasa, or Lubale and changed the name of Thames river to Nyanja Nalubale, probably you would be very happy with us? From here we can have a little dialogue!
rantings or ramblings
written by Betty Long Cap , May 25, 2011
"If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured, or far away." Henry David Thoreau wrote in Walden.
victor, do you really want the western world to leave you alone to march to your own African drummer? When you get sick, do you seek medical intervention with pharmaceuticals developed in the west or do you go to your local healer for herbs?
How many HIV/AIDS positive Ugandans are alive today because of American medicines and foreign aid?
Do you ever drink Coca Cola or Pepsi? As much as he hated the land of the Infidels, Osama bin Laden would have both sodas delivered to his "home away from home" in Pakistan.
America does not hesitate to borrow from European countries and native Indian tribes to name cities, rivers, even states e.g. the town of West Lafayette, city of Los Angeles, the river Cuyahoga, and the state of Louisiana. We even borrow Arab names such as Medina and Memphis with no shame or guilt.
Perhaps the difference is America is a melting pot of people groups while indigenous people marry within their own tribe and generation and want to preseve their unique culture unadulterated by outside influence even if it means extinction.
Can any country expect to have a democracy when tribal self-interests eclipse national. I suspect democracy can coexist with a tribal social system if there are strong constitutional safeguards against long-seated dictatorships but that has yet to be proven because dictators abolish term limits.
How much of a debt do Afro-Americans have to African brothers who sold their forefathers into slavery? In the sixties we heard demands for reparations but isn't there enough guilt to spread on three continents and both races.
How many north African Arabs can trace their ancestory back to kidnapped Europeans along the Atlantic coast and then sold at the slave auctions in Algiers?
Wer zuletzt lacht, lacht am besten.
Betty, go home!
written by victor , May 25, 2011
Yes. We want to be left alone and not be told how to write or rewrite our constitution. You say we sold our brothers into slavery, what about the slave raids your forefathers organised and the forts they built to herd Africans before shipping them away from home and stopping them from speaking their languages?
If you are so kind why don't you talk about the people that the slave riders dumped in the sea when there were storms? Did our forefathers travel to Europe or America to bring slaves?
And who mistreated our brothers and sisters in America, and treated them like commodity until this day? Is it we Africans doing that? Betty, just go home! We are not going to listen to you! What debt do we have?
Do you mean from your DEAD AID? We don't need it. Who brought AIDS to Africa? Or small pox? Who cares about your Coca Cola or Coke full of cocaine? When we are sick we have our indigenous medicine first and foremost. Betty, take your crap with you.
You country has to pay reparations to Africa for stealing our people's labour to develop foreign lands.
tribal self-interest?
written by victor , May 25, 2011
When the Irish tribe and the English tribe fight each other and use their witchcraft aginst each other, we have not accused them of anything.
Instead, we have left them to 'do their thing' and we have not intervened to 'civilize' them to bring our African way of life upon them by force. When Columbus was killing the native Americans and setting dogs to bite them that is something even you Betty Long Cap should 'enlighten' other cultures about, and not only talk of Coca Cola and Pepsi. We have our Mwenge Bigere and Malwa for drinks which we cannot compare with those items you mentioned.
Los Angeles?
written by victor , May 25, 2011
Los Angeles is a Spanish name. The Spanish had renamed this area after taking it from the native Americans. Then the Anglo Saxons took it by force after a war with the Spanish.
How did you borrow this name? Cuyahonga is a native name of a native place by native people. How do you borrow a native name of a place? Betty you are an imperialist. We have to guard against your type. You are very restless! In the same way, are you trying to abolish African ethnic groups or nationalities or nations? What are you talking about? And your purpose?
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